Le Jock Sportif wrote:Hmph, Aidan....Britain doesnae have a football or rugby team.
MrTattieHeid wrote:"British North America"? You mean Canada? As far as I know, that's the only territory that has been known by that name. I believe that term was coined specifically to differentiate the remaining colonies from the thirteen that broke away. I could be wrong. I do know that the confederation of Canada was validated by the British North America Act of 1867.
Anyway, the point is that the folks in the US objected to a geographical name that was no longer appropriate - their independent country was no longer "British". And that seems to me to be appropriate for the Irish living in the Republic. Their country occupies most of the island of Ireland, is independent, and certainly not British. Why should they accept that they live in the "British" Isles, any more than the Americans should have accepted after independence that they lived in "British" North America?
There's no problem calling the archipelago "the islands of Britain and Ireland" or something similar - it's more accurate for a start, and less irritating to patriotic citizens of the Republic.
So - what was the original question?
MrTattieHeid wrote:I don't think it's the same at all! The name "British North America" described British possessions in North America, whose boundaries changed over time, as the Brits occupied and relinquished territory. When the US was no longer a British possession, it no longer applied to them. But the British Isles is a geographical term, with, as has been established, no legal or governmental weight; its boundaries are geographical (and therefore unchanging), not political. It doesn't mean the whole of the archipelago is under British rule, any more than the name Grand-Bretagne implies that Great Britain is under Breton rule--It would remain the name even if Scotland and Wales were entirely independent. If you want a different name, fine, and I'll accept your arguments for not liking it, but you can't use political reasons to claim that the geographical term doesn't include Ireland. Of course Ireland is not part of Great Britain; but like it or not, it is part of the British Isles, until you can convince everyone to use a different name. That is, for better or worse, the name geographers and cartographers have long agreed to use.
Now let's talk about something a little less inflammatory...like "Londonderry" on Irish passports.
Aidan wrote:MrTattieHeid wrote:And many cartographers and dictionaries do not use the term to refer to these islands.
MrTattieHeid wrote:Honestly, no....Aidan wrote:MrTattieHeid wrote:And many cartographers and dictionaries do not use the term to refer to these islands.
And what term do they use?
MrTattieHeid wrote: If you want a different name, fine, and I'll accept your arguments for not liking it
Iain wrote:MrTattieHeid wrote: If you want a different name, fine, and I'll accept your arguments for not liking it
Well, that seems a nice conciliatory way to end this heated wee discussion.
Aidan wrote:MrTattieHeid wrote:I think there are a few different ones, but mostly (amongst those who do not use "British Isles") it's Britain and Ireland.
...and Man and Wight and Orkney and Shetland and Scilly and Inner, Outer, Upper, and Downer Hebrides and...Aidan wrote:The British Government use the term "these islands" in their dealings with the irish Government.
"Those islands" everywhere else. (That'll look good on a map.)Aidan wrote:There are also lesser used terms like "the Anglo-Celtic archipelligo".
MrTattieHeid wrote:It's possible you will have saved me some embarrassment, the next time I'm slogging Guinness in Galway or somewhere. We in the colonies are easily confused by the seemingly nebulous terms Britain, Great Britain, UK, etc, and as a Scot attested above, there are those who simply call the whole mess "England". So you see, it could be worse, and in fact often is.
Now let us get back to arguing about Blended Malts.
Aidan wrote:And speaking of Galway, on the Arran Islands, they call refer to Ireland as "the big island".
Aidan wrote:An anniversary...Ireland has been a republic for 60 years, as of the day before yesterday.