Longrow 18 Year Old

[jplu2]

But if you don't live in the UK, it's a little bit of a problem.

[les taylor]

But if you don't live in the UK, it's a little bit of a problem.

jplu2 it looks as though living in the UK it's a little bit of a problem as well.

[jplu2]

True les...I am just amazed that there is in the region of 2000 people/shops who have swept these up from under our noses...withour even a sniff

[jplu2]

sorry... "without"

[adogranonthepitch]

I am telling you there is loads of the stuff out there.

No one has it on their website though.

Use that thing with numbers on .... its called a ........ teleprinterphonegraphocom ...... telephone

[Willie JJ]

Yes it is out there but it is moving fast. Best get on the phone if you want one.

[John McGill]

Picked one of these up this afternoon along with a CV for good measure.

Pity about the presentation, i.e. the box. Initially it looks ok but on closer inspection it's a bit flimsy and a bit cheap looking

[Willie JJ]

Pity about the presentation, i.e. the box. Initially it looks ok but on closer inspection it's a bit flimsy and a bit cheap looking

I agree. If they can't get a decent box they shouldn't bother. Just a waste of money.

[adogranonthepitch]

Oddbins dont have it ..... yet

Thoise that know me will know know I like to spread the happiness around .... so I told the guy (John) at Royal Mile Edinburgh Oddbins he should be tuckin' some away if he gets some deal maker or what

Anyway ... he didnt seem that ar$ed.

You cant please some people... double yer money in a year I tell you....

[jplu2]

I know this topic has had it's day...but just a quick update...Springbank confirmed this pm that they sent out a bottle for me yesterday...I am very pleased as you can imagine...pleased as punch really!!

[fishboy]

I know this topic has had it's day...but just a quick update...Springbank confirmed this pm that they sent out a bottle for me yesterday...I am very pleased as you can imagine...pleased as punch really!!

well done jplu2! I hope you enjoy it.

I wonder how many of the 2200 bottles will be drunk? How long before one appears on eBay?

FB

[jplu2]

I have also thought of that...have been keeping an eye on Ebay and noticed a couple today ... from Europe ... starting at reasonable prices but will be interesting to see what they get to!

[invercannie]

Contacted the Whisky Exhange today and have secured a bottle However it was at an increased price from a batch they are buying in (their first batch apparently sold out as fast as others).

[fishboy]

Contacted the Whisky Exhange today and have secured a bottle However it was at an increased price from a batch they are buying in (their first batch apparently sold out as fast as others).

Well done Invercannie. How much did you end up paying? (if you don't mind saying......)

Welcome to the Forums by the way!

FB

[Deactivated Member]

I am telling you boys (and girls) ... this bottle needs hoovering up.\ I t will be £150 to £200 in twelve months. Buy it all costs!

Sorry, I'm coming at this late but I find this attitude very offensive. You advocate buying whisky to hoard - for what purpose? Just so you can make money for nothing from people who actually want to drink the stuff. Yet you then gaily post hoots of derision when people buy the stuff from speculators at higher prices on ebay.

[fishboy]

I am telling you boys (and girls) ... this bottle needs hoovering up.\ I t will be £150 to £200 in twelve months. Buy it all costs!

Sorry, I'm coming at this late but I find this attitude very offensive. You advocate buying whisky to hoard - for what purpose? Just so you can make money for nothing from people who actually want to drink the stuff. Yet you then gaily post hoots of derision when people buy the stuff from speculators at higher prices on ebay.

I've tried before to reconcile the fact that this forum is home to people with agenda's that may differ from my own (I class myself as a whisky drinker who has built up a collection through buying too fast and drinking too slowly!). However to a certain extent I agree with Nick on this one. Giving advance notice of an interesting new bottling is one thing (e.g the F+M Ardbeg that many here would have otherwise missed out on). But advocating hoovering up (buying in bulk?), then hoarding to further limit supply and drive up the price is something else.

I managed to get my hands on two bottles, one to open straight away and the other to save. This tends to be my normal policy with limited releases of things I think I might like. If it turns out I'm not that impressed by it, I probably will try to sell the other bottle (this doesn't happen too often!). I don't think this makes me a speculator - though some might disagree. The more likely outcome is that Ill love the Longrow 18 and drink both bottles. This should please the speculators as it will mean two less bottles in the world!

I've been a long time supporter of Springbank and what they do, and from their point of view they must be really happy that they can sell out a relatively expensive bottling so quickly. I really enjoy the Springbank society bottles (which are I think always really fairly priced and nearly always excellent whiskies!). However it really does annoy me when society bottles sell on the auction sites for many multiples of the original price - sometimes before I've even opened my bottle. As Springbank society bottles (for those that aren't members) are often, depending on the outrun, limited in the first instance to 1 per member, these people are clearly only buying them to sell on at profit and not interested in the whisky at all.

Finally, I wonder if anyone can clear up the following. My understanding of eBay rules is that buying items on the open market to sell at a higher price in the short term makes someone a "dealer" requiring an eBay business account (all eBay users were recently required to clarify the status of their accounts as "private" or "business"). This sort of account will surely in the future attract the attention of the Inland Revenue? Is the profit from this sort of speculation classed as "income"?

Anyway, just my opinion.

FB

[Di Blasi]

I've sent an email to the importer asking which shops will carry it over there in the US, and I've also been in touch with a few shops, hope to get a bottle when I'm over in a few weeks.

[adogranonthepitch]

Dear Nick and Fishboy

Thank you for your comments. In some respect I am being two faced, saying the Macallan sold for silly money and then encouraging fellow forum memebers to (and in hindsight a rather crass word .... hooover up this bottle)

There are many people on this forum - which to be honest is why I like it.

I have been able to purchase many bottles because fellow dramers have highlighted it on this forum.

It was myself that highlighted everyone to the Fortnum and mason Ardbeg 1990. I could of bought in excess of 80 bottles. Now thats would be silly but I know two people who, from my info bought a dozen each and sold them for £350 each , but I only bought two.

There are 2280 bottles of this stuff. Yes .. I was a little excessive on the 'dubberyermoney' phrasing - but that was because my leg was pulled on the Ardbeg, but I am sure a 20 forum memebers buying 2 or 3 isnt going to severly effect the pricing of this beauty.

Why do I buy whisky ... many reasons. I like the taste of it... great for bad days after work.

... but another ... and I make no apologies is the collecting element. It doesnt matter if they are Royal Doulton figurines or Beermats - my collecting passion is whisky. Yes- I have purchased a few bottles with the intention to sell on in years to come. I also have paid HIGHER prices on bottles that they too were collected by someone else a few years before. I recently paid £170 for an Ardbeg Committee Reserve. Originally released at under £50 ... I decided to pay the price.

But on the other hand I have a Lunar HP for sale ... sold in Europe for over £300 and I cant shift it at just over £200.

The increase in value is capital appreciation - so can come under the Capital Gains Tax which has the £9k pa allowance.

Anyway ... I still love you all. I respect everyones opinion.

Dog out

[Deactivated Member]

Dog - I have thought hard about this posting because it doesn't look good to be flaming a fellow forum member, but I just don't accept your version of events.

You are a speculator, not a collector. By your own admission, you buy whisky to realize quick profits through rapid onward sale. OK, you can't shift your HP Lunar Year. If you were a real collector, you wouldn't even have tried. And asking £200 for a £50 whisky, I'm not surprised you haven't shifted it.

Now we are both men of the world. We know the whisky world is small and that a few people can make a small difference. Almost all of the high prices that Ardbeg is fetching, for example, are down to Jim Murray. But in the case of the Fortnum and Mason's Ardbeg, you proved to yourself that a carefully worded tip here could empty the shelves within a fortnight. By the same token, the tips you offered to RMW and on this site for Longrow - which looks very overpriced at £80 for an 18yo, especially since I can't think of a collectable Longrow ever - looks like trying to generate hysteria in the market. If enough orders come in to the main mail order whisky shops within a week, their staff will start to believe the tip-off you gave them (and by all accounts, you have done the rounds of the shops) and the bottle will either be taken off the shelves or be punted on by the shop owners as a sure fire success. Meanwhile, speculators such as yourself will be able to sell on ebay for instant profit, taking money from people who are persuaded by the hysteria that they have missed something. You know that, I know that.

When I first joined this forum, collectors got a hard time. It took a lot of patient argument before collectors were able to put their heads above the parapet. But we all agreed that the parasites - the ebay speculators - were causing real difficulty for whisky enthusiasts. What they are doing might not be illegal (although the HMRC might disagree), but they were making it hard for ordinary whisky fans to enjoy great whisky whilst contributing precisely nothing to the whisky world in the process. Of course there was always the case of someone who had the good fortune to stumble across something special and we turned a blind eye - especially when it involved Irish whisky. That's a bit like the football fan who becomes a ticket tout when his team gets to the FA Cup final and he gets his two tickets. Distasteful, but forgivable. But what you appear to be doing is setting out to manipulate the market to benefit from speculating.

If I have misunderstood then so be it. But sometimes, it is perceptions that matter, whatever the truth. And only you can ever know the truth.

[Deactivated Member]

Supply and demand. You might not like it, but there's nothing you can do about it.

[Di Blasi]

Dog, you're another of my heroes around here. I loved your explanation up there about collecting and your honesty is appreciated. Keep up the good work, and thanks also for the tips and advice too!

[Di Blasi]

The word back from a few shops in New York is availability about May or June, and 24 bottles for New York, not many at all. No price yet though.

[Deactivated Member]

Dog, you're another of my heroes around here. I loved your explanation up there about collecting and your honesty is appreciated.

I didn't see anything about collecting - just touting.

[invercannie]

Nice to take your first forum walk into a barfight

Thanks for the welcome fishboy - the reserve on the Longrow cost me 100 of your earth pounds - hope this was a genuine re-buy as I am not best pleased by dissemination.

if a whisky is worth it the market will decide. If a greedy producer (Bowmore Black Monday v2.0 anyone?) or speculators grub the price up too far the market will respond by moving elsewhere. The buzz was on for this release way ahead of any posts on this forum. True, as some say, that a few noses carry more weight than others. Point is, if you think you have a stronger nose find a vehicle and express it!

Collector vs investor vs speculator vs drinker. Am I qualified to comment? I drink the stuff (plenty), save some for future events or gifts and yes, some will find its way back on the market to fund yet more purchases. The current favourable climate for whisky may not last. My basic assumption for a purchase is, "for the price will I be happy to drink the stuff in the right situation".

[Di Blasi]

Nice to take your first forum walk into a barfight

Ha ha invercannie, good one! It happens around here on occasion, though we usually just have a good time instead. Welcome!

[Deactivated Member]

Thanks for the welcome fishboy - the reserve on the Longrow cost me 100 of your earth pounds - hope this was a genuine re-buy as I am not best pleased by dissemination.

Also welcome - and sorry if you have been stung by the "hoovering". I also am not best pleased by dissemination, but I think we have found a prima facie example for you to observe. See how it wriggles.

[Newbie]

Wasn't I the one who was (and still am) annoyed with the secondary market driving up prices?

Nick Brown, it was you who told me not to get emotional about the subject and that its simply due to the theory of supply and demand. This situation isn't exactly the same as when you offered me your advice but its similar enough for it to apply. No point getting so angry over something you have little control over.

There will always be speculators out there! Dog is one of the better ones as he is honest about what he is doing and he gives good tips when he could easily keep it to himself! There was much hype about the Longrow way before Dog even mentioned it on this forum.

I've not purchased a Longrow 18 or F&M Ardbeg but I eagerly await Dog's next tip - keep up the good work

[Deactivated Member]

There will always be speculators out there! Dog is one of the better ones as he is honest about what he is doing and he gives good tips when he could easily keep it to himself!

You see, I think he is trying to manipulate the market and had worked out it doesn't take very many people to do this. If he bought up all the stock himself, he wouldn't persuade anyone of the inherent value of the product. But by telling shops that the product is valuable, and then organizing a mob of people to strip the shelves, he creates the impression of high demand. It's a variation of shilling.

And in any case, apologizing for speculators by saying that they are good at what they do and give you tips is something for which you ought to give yourself a long and hard look.

In my book, speculators are scum. They try to make money without contributing anything to society, whilst driving up the prices for us all.

[Newbie]

And in any case, apologizing for speculators by saying that they are good at what they do and give you tips is something for which you ought to give yourself a long and hard look.

Who is apologizing for speculators and why should I look at myself? I simply said Dog is better than other speculators because at least he tells us whats on the market.

I find it hard to believe that a single person can influence the market as much as you claim! If so why do distilleries need marketing departments and advertising budgets at all? Simply stick a random guy on this forum to create a buzz - job done!

Also what about the other side of the equation, the people who buy the vastly inflated product? Why don't you put the blame on them? If they didn't buy it then all the speculators would be stuck with stuff they can't sell and the problem would be eradicated within months!

Oh wait its that darn supply and demand again, something which you have brought up time and time again. Take your own advice and don't let your emotions cloud your thoughts.

[invercannie]

Thanks for the wellcome guys but I am not taking any particular sides here. Commerce is as old as civilisation and to criticise it just because it affects your leisure interests is pretty naiive. adogranonthepitch obviously has a good sense of market forces. This does not make him a bad person, or even worse, a teatotaler

[parvus]

There will always be speculators out there! Dog is one of the better ones as he is honest about what he is doing and he gives good tips when he could easily keep it to himself!

You see, I think he is trying to manipulate the market and had worked out it doesn't take very many people to do this. If he bought up all the stock himself, he wouldn't persuade anyone of the inherent value of the product. But by telling shops that the product is valuable, and then organizing a mob of people to strip the shelves, he creates the impression of high demand. It's a variation of shilling.

And in any case, apologizing for speculators by saying that they are good at what they do and give you tips is something for which you ought to give yourself a long and hard look.

In my book, speculators are scum. They try to make money without contributing anything to society, whilst driving up the prices for us all.

Pure speculators make up such a tiny amount of whisky consumption that I think you're attributing them a bit more sway than they're capable of. Sure, one speculator can pique the interest of a particular bottle amongst people on the forums, but the effect of that would be marginal in the total sales of any particular bottle. Of the estimated 2,200 or so Longrow 18's, a great, great deal will be consumed by Springbank/Longrow fans, a smaller amount will be purchased for bars and clubs, a smaller amount still for 'collectors', and the rest will be squabbled over by the speculators.

I think the whole victim mentality some people display with regards to collectors ruining their fun is a little over played, and frankly it's for the most part unnecessary. Their money, their risk, their hobby - ignore it if you don't like it.

[Deactivated Member]

Firstly - please stop confusing collectors with speculators. Collectors buy one, two or three bottles (one for drinking, one for keeping and one for trading). Speculators like to go "hoovering" up stock wherever they find it. They will do this by "hitting" particular bottles.

Secondly - in terms of the influence that one person can have - as I have explained, one person buying a lot of one whisky looks like one person. But if he can persuade the few mail or internet sales places that a bottle will sell out fast and increase in value, then those places will pass the word on. So to do this, you put the rumour out to the shops, and then persuade others to approach those shops to buy up all the stock. The combination of the forewarning and the fact that enquiries come from several sources makes the prophecy look true, so the shops react accordingly. The prophecy becomes self-fulfilling. Because of the small number of such retailers in the UK, it is possible for one person to do this.

Economic theory relies on perfect information. What I am suspecting is an attempt to manipulate the market by misinformation - making demand appear greater than it is. This is at the root of all sorts of age old scams, from the Thai gems scam to the old record sales scam to promote records up the charts.

Fair enough - if you have made a few quid by being playing your part in this scam then I can see you won't want to admit to the truth. If, like Invercannie, you've had to pay an extra 20 notes for something that you probably shouldn't have had to, I can also see that it is uncomfortable to admit the truth. But if you look on these pages, you'll find plenty of people who have paid the price in spades.

And as for the argument that says if people didn't pay higher prices, there wouldn't be touts... True, but you might as well blame the junkie for creating the market that draws in the poor dope peddlar.

Face it chaps - we've caught one of them bang to rights.

[bamber]

I think this bottling is too expensive. Add to that the fact Longrow normally sits around on shelves I cannot see what the fuss is about. Why this one ? We get a new Longrow releases all the time and no-one really talks about them much.

Nick,

Do you think speculators really affect us though - the true enthusiasts ? We could have got bottles of it if we'd wanted them.

[Deactivated Member]

Nick,

Do you think speculators really affect us though - the true enthusiasts ? We could have got bottles of it if we'd wanted them.

Of course speculators affect us. They need people to flog the bottles on to - and those are the whisky enthusiasts (whether collectors or drinkers). We have already seen on this thread that someone has had to pay an extra 25% to get this bottle. Sure some people will get the bottle for the regular price, but if you had, say, 1500 bottles for the UK market, speculators buy up 100 of them, this looks like a rush on the bottles if done the right way, which persuades others to buy bottles they wouldn't otherwise have bought (which they then sit and look at in the belief that they have a long term investment) and you find the shelves cleared in a fortnight when the supply ought to have lasted a year.

I agree that in an ordinary world, this Longrow looks well overpriced and Longrow tends not to be much sought after. I'm intrigued by people saying that the word on the streets was that this would sell out and rocket in price before it was mentioned on this forum. I hadn't picked this up at all, and I wonder where the evidence is for it.

[bamber]

....which persuades others to buy bottles they wouldn't otherwise have bought (which they then sit and look at in the belief that they have a long term investment) and you find the shelves cleared in a fortnight when the supply ought to have lasted a year.

This is interesting: you could well be right. A friend of mine, who is no collector, has a bottle of Ardbeg VY which he never plans to open. He often tells people that it is a £100 bottle of whisky !