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Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

General chat and talk about whisky.

Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby pavv » Thu May 08, 2008 7:15 pm

PC 5 was only 5 years old......tasted great (if you like'm young)....and flew of the shelves.

PC 6....only 6 yeards old...tastes great too, and they made a lot more of that available...

I really like the QC...great whisky at a nice price (way better than the current 10yo at 40% ABV). Who cares how old it is when the taste is right.

Agreed, 40£ seems a worse deal for a NAS whisky compared to the 50£ they charged for a REAL 17yo whisky they offered last year with the Laphroaig 1989 vintage 17 Years ( 2007 Feis Ile bottling) at 50.3%. But still, it is not that bad a deal....I bought one. Cheers!

(and I concur that they mention the "17" word too loud and too often in that marketing-blurb they mailed around the world...)
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby enzot » Thu May 08, 2008 7:24 pm

I think the price of £40 tells you everything you need to know.
The 2004 Feis Ile 17 Y.O sold for £150 per bottle.
It was a single cask release of only 250 bottles.Much rarer and one of the best whiskies I've ever tasted.

Cheers
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Newbie » Thu May 08, 2008 10:21 pm

Enzot when you say GBP40 tells you everything you need to know - do you mean that its good or bad?

I am sure it'll be a great whisky and the quarter cask is good stuff as well! What I do object to are these companies charging over the top prices for what is essentially young whisky!

I am sure people will once again bring up economics and say they'll price it at what people are willing to pay, but everyone seems to be putting out younger and younger bottlings at higher and higher prices! How can a company put out a product that is in conflict with their own pricing structure for their standard range! I don't mind paying a bit more for an older whisky but paying more for a younger whisky doesn't make sense.

I know age isn't an indication of whether a whisky will be good or not, but to me this just seems like the distilleries' are trying to make a better margin and to improve their cashflow.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby TheTross » Thu May 08, 2008 10:52 pm

There's obviously an increasing market for younger whiskies though:

  • Edradour created a Discovery series of heavily-peated whisky (Ballechin) in 2006, which started with a 3yo,
  • Ardbeg had their immensely popular Very Young, Still Young and Almost There series, which started with a 6yo,
  • One of Laphroaig 's core products is the Quarter Cask, which is an alleged 4-year-old.

And no doubt there are many more. Kilchoman even regularly releases miniatures of new-make, which I presume is a first, though that may well be to aid cash flow whilst their first distillate matures enough to produce core bottlings a few years down the line for regular income.

Yes, the prices are insane for such young spirit; the Ballechins retail at ~£57, for example, for what is 3yo (first release) and 4yo (second release) whisky, but distilleries are going to to cash in on it whilst there's a market for it. And bringing up the economy point, if people are willing to pay that amount for such products, then distilleries are hardly going to lower the prices for subsequent young releases.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Ganga » Thu May 08, 2008 11:51 pm

And generally these are pretty mediocre products. Ballechin #1 was not impressive at all. AVY was so-so. PC5, PC6 were probably the most interesting of them.

BTW, I believe the Laphroaig whisky cast from awhile ago mentioned that the casks used to create the QC were from 4 to 11 years old and varied from batch to batch.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby DanAir » Fri May 09, 2008 12:04 am

Newbie wrote: know age isn't an indication of whether a whisky will be good or not, but to me this just seems like the distilleries' are trying to make a better margin and to improve their cashflow.


And so they should, today's cashflow is tomorrow's Laphroaig 40.

There's more to a whisky's value than its age and for my money the fact that it's one off, limited release is worth a bit. Couple this with the romance of Feis Ile and the fact that it does have some special 17 yr old in it makes it worth the price in my view (obviously said without having tasted it).

Put another way, think of how much they would have had to charge to release the two casks of 17 on their own. They could have achieved the same cashflow but I'm certain that wouldd have pushed it out of my price range. This way they've made it accessible to a wider audience and I reckon that's got to be a good thing.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Deactivated Member » Fri May 09, 2008 12:30 am

DanAir wrote:
Newbie wrote: know age isn't an indication of whether a whisky will be good or not, but to me this just seems like the distilleries' are trying to make a better margin and to improve their cashflow.


And so they should, today's cashflow is tomorrow's Laphroaig 40.

There's more to a whisky's value than its age and for my money the fact that it's one off, limited release is worth a bit. Couple this with the romance of Feis Ile and the fact that it does have some special 17 yr old in it makes it worth the price in my view (obviously said without having tasted it).

Put another way, think of how much they would have had to charge to release the two casks of 17 on their own. They could have achieved the same cashflow but I'm certain that wouldd have pushed it out of my price range. This way they've made it accessible to a wider audience and I reckon that's got to be a good thing.

DanAir - you've fallen for it. The 17yo is irrelevant - please don't validate this myth. It is less than 4% of the stuff in the bottle. It's not special - it was deemed unfit for the regular 17yo. And 17yo whisky is barely worth that price for 100% of the contents of a bottle. The Cairdeas may or may not taste special. But the hyping of the age of the oldest whisky in the blend is criminal. All whiskies have a mix of ages.

For info - as posted above - the cask strength 17yo for the Feis last year cost £50 a bottle.

I wish I had spectacles that were as rose tinted as some people on this forum.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Ganga » Fri May 09, 2008 2:22 am

Only one slight disagreement with Nick's assessment. Not all whisky is a mix of ages. Single Cask releases are not as an example. Mr. Picky, did you migrate west?
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Newbie » Fri May 09, 2008 2:43 am

Nick reply has covered most of what I would have said!

The 15 year old retails for around £35 and last years society bottling of the 17 year old was £50! So this year they've reduced the price 20% but they have reduced the ratio of the 17 year whisky to only a few %!

Obviously any company would like more margin and cashflow but I doubt they'll use this extra bit they're making to make a Laphroaig 40 any cheaper (infact the older expressions of Laphroaig are getting very expensive)!

I am not worried about this one off bottling but I am worried about whisky inflation in general! If the distilleries see that we'll accept a younger whisky for a high price then thats what they'll do! How long before the standard age (10-12 years old) becomes 5-6 years old and we're charged the same price for it?

Whisky is expensive enough but I don't want to see it go the way of the cognac market where you have to spend vast amounts to get anything decent.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby slojo » Fri May 09, 2008 10:19 am

I am by no means an expert, just an enjoyer (and occasional collector) of whisky, but since when has 17 years been considered "old" to the extent that the inclusion of a tiny quantity in a release pushes the price to £40 and is its main selling/hyping point?

By way of comparison, Lagavulin 16 yo is around £38, Bowmore 18 yo and Bruichladdich 18 yo are around £50 and Talisker 18 yo around £35. In those bottles the whole of the contents is the "old" whisky.

If there was a bit of 40 yo in there then perhaps I can see the attraction, but 17 years in whisky terms is not such a major deal.

Or am I missing something?
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby DanAir » Fri May 09, 2008 10:35 am

Nick Brown wrote:DanAir - you've fallen for it. The 17yo is irrelevant - please don't validate this myth. It is less than 4% of the stuff in the bottle.

OK, that's just condascending (you do know what that means, right?). I've far from fallen for it, and I haven't defended the marketing drivel, only the price.

How did you calculate 4%?

Nick Brown wrote:It's not special - it was deemed unfit for the regular 17yo.

Was it?

Nick Brown wrote:the hyping of the age of the oldest whisky in the blend is criminal.

Criminal? I'm sure you don't mean that. I guess that's what you would probably call hype.

Nick Brown wrote:I wish I had spectacles that were as rose tinted as some people on this forum.

Based on the factors I've already mentioned I believe the price is reasonable (although not a bargain) - and those that don't won't buy it. If you think this is a result of rose-tinted specs, well, that's fine.

Newbie wrote:Obviously any company would like more margin and cashflow but I doubt they'll use this extra bit they're making to make a Laphroaig 40 any cheaper (infact the older expressions of Laphroaig are getting very expensive)!

I wasn't being completely serious I was only pointing out that it's isn't detrimental to us that the distillery is being run as a business. The price of the older expressions is a result of diminishing supply. That's the way market forces work.

Newbie wrote:Whisky is expensive enough but I don't want to see it go the way of the cognac market where you have to spend vast amounts to get anything decent.

Agreed.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby jotter » Fri May 09, 2008 12:24 pm

I'm looking forward to tasting it. If it is good whisky then £40 doesn't seem bad to me for a nice dram.
The intrinsic value surely must come from the taste not the age and there must be a fair few old casks bottled by IBs that taste less than average and yet command a high premium. So following the taste argument if "4%" is the right amount of 17 year old to get the vatting just right then why not? 5% might diminish it after all then everybody loses.
:D
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby objetti » Fri May 09, 2008 12:31 pm

The "swedish" information is that Cairdeas is actually not that young.
According to the state-retailer "Systembolaget" the Cairdeas is a vatting of 13, 15 and 17 yrs old whisky from bourbon casks (previously containing Maker´s Mark)
In effect it could then be branded a 13 yr old I guess
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby objetti » Fri May 09, 2008 12:36 pm

I actually posted some early tasting notes of mine in the movie thread at the bar
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby DanAir » Fri May 09, 2008 12:50 pm

objetti wrote:I actually posted some early tasting notes of mine in the movie thread at the bar

Thanks for the notes. (Here if anyone's interested). When did you order your bottle?
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby objetti » Fri May 09, 2008 12:55 pm

DanAir wrote:
objetti wrote:I actually posted some early tasting notes of mine in the movie thread at the bar

Thanks for the notes. (Here if anyone's interested). When did you order your bottle?


I just bought two bottles a week ago i the swedish state retailer shop.
Practical but a bit expensive at 55£ (of the 3600 released here I think approx 800 is still available - no rush but pretty good rotation anyway - will probably all be gone in Sweden within a month)
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Newbie » Fri May 09, 2008 1:08 pm

DanAir wrote:I wasn't being completely serious I was only pointing out that it's isn't detrimental to us that the distillery is being run as a business.


Its not detrimental that the distillery is making money and they seem to doing just fine with the pricing on their standard range. For a distillery age is often the factor when deciding the price point to sell the whisky at, so why is this whisky at odds with their own pricing structure and prices of previous bottlings - just seems like they're being greedy to me!

Someone mentioned that this is a vatting of 13, 15 & 17 year old whisky. Has the quarter cask whisky been around that long?
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Deactivated Member » Fri May 09, 2008 1:27 pm

It's only £40 whisky until you open it. Then it's £20 whisky. The distillery are taking their cut before the hoovers, sorry, vacuumers.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Deactivated Member » Fri May 09, 2008 1:29 pm

Oh, and comparisons with standard bottlings are irrelevant, price-wise, as it costs much more to label and promote a limited release.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby objetti » Fri May 09, 2008 1:37 pm

Newbie wrote:Someone mentioned that this is a vatting of 13, 15 & 17 year old whisky. Has the quarter cask whisky been around that long?


The swedish systembolag could be wrong in their facts - but if they´re right the youngest Cairdeas part taken from the "Quarter cask process" would be (at least) then 10 yr old whisky placed in bourbon casks three years ago instead of going into the quarter casks. (It would then indicate also that the final regular quarter cask product would be a vatting including also older components than the 4yr whisky mentioned earlier in the thread)
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Newbie » Fri May 09, 2008 2:12 pm

butephoto wrote:Oh, and comparisons with standard bottlings are irrelevant, price-wise, as it costs much more to label and promote a limited release.


True Bute, but not a substanstial amount more! They already have established bottling and labelling facilities so it might cost a little more for a redesign of the label and tube but not alot.

They're promoting it through the Friends of Laphroaig and the Islay festival so I can't see it why they would need additional money to promote it.

I am going to stop moaning about this now :wink:
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby enzot » Fri May 09, 2008 4:22 pm

Hi

I haven't tried the Cairdeas yet as my order hasn't arrived.
I also think £40 still sounds reasonable for this bottle.
It would be nice though to have another single cask bottling for the Islay Feis Ile...along the lines of the World Duty Free exclusive 12 Y.O Oloroso.A single cask of around 300 bottles for only £35 !

Cheers
Enzo...
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby samuelkarlsson » Mon May 12, 2008 8:55 pm

hi to everyone!

i just want to mention that hicks says in the "laphroaig live online tasting" that the quarter cask is up to 11yo...

the letter from laphroaig about cairdeas says that it contains two barrels of excaptional 17yo and that the rest is "overaged" laphroaig qc...

anyways i thought it was really good. so far i havent tasted a laphroaig OB that i didnt like and i look at this yeaars feis ile, the cairdeas as yet another expression of (good tasting) laphroaig...

just tell me if you want my tasting notes of the cairdeas and i´ll put them up.

slainthe, your friend in sweden, sam.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Ryguy » Mon May 12, 2008 8:59 pm

samuelkarlsson wrote:hi to everyone!

i just want to mention that hicks says in the "laphroaig live online tasting" that the quarter cask is up to 11yo...

the letter from laphroaig about cairdeas says that it contains two barrels of excaptional 17yo and that the rest is "overaged" laphroaig qc...

anyways i thought it was really good. so far i havent tasted a laphroaig OB that i didnt like and i look at this yeaars feis ile, the cairdeas as yet another expression of (good tasting) laphroaig...

just tell me if you want my tasting notes of the cairdeas and i´ll put them up.

slainthe, your friend in sweden, sam.


Samuelkarlsson,

Welcome to the forums!!! I'd love to see your tasting notes on the Cairdeas bottling. Please post them, I'm sure other people will appreciate it as well.

Thanks! :thumbsup:
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Mr Ellen » Tue May 13, 2008 7:53 pm

I have now tasted the new Cairdeas on several occasions and I must say I'm really impressed. At the moment I am doing a vertical with the 1989 Vintage (Friends Of Laphroaig bottling 2007) and the standard 10 year old. I find the Cairdeas a much more "typical" Laphroaig bottling with its sweetness and medicinal notes. The 1989 is very austere, dry and spirity - and far to woody to please me.
My tasting notes would describe the Caideas as following:

Colour: Straw
Nose: Lots of lemon and vanilla, heather. Strawberries and cream. At first it reminds me of Rosebank or Bladnoch. The nose is very inviting. Some medicinal notes and demerara sugar. Sweet and promising. This is in the same league as the (from me) highly praised Glenturret 1985/20y./55.2% Signatory Decanter bottling. Beautiful!!!
Taste: Lots of peat, salt. Hot and fiery at first, followed by a woody touch. Lemon and black pepper. Waves of peat mellows into a great finale. Rounded and very balanced.
Finish: Soft as silk. You feel like you're chewing on honey coated marzipan. Delicious. Makes you begging for more.

In my opinion this is one of the better Laphroaig offerings lately. It's definitely a whisky for drinking. A true Laphroaig with all the caracteristics belonging to it.
Image

Now, I hope you all will receive your bottles within short. Please, do not let it gather any dust. It's a true example of a great whisky. Enjoy!!! :thumbsup:

Cheers
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Ryguy » Tue May 13, 2008 8:07 pm

Mr. Ellen, Very nice note there! Sounds like a wonderful bottle too!!!! :D :D

Thanks! :thumbsup:
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Jimmy321 » Tue May 13, 2008 8:23 pm

Well, Mr Ellen your notes make me look forward to this as all the other chat had got me doubting myself about the purchase.
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby TheTross » Wed May 14, 2008 9:37 am

Doorbell just rang, and waiting for me was... a delivery bloke with a bottle-sized box in his hand!

My Càirdeas is here! Has taken exactly a week from ordering to get here, which I'm very impressed with considering Laphroaig state up to 28 days on the site.

No time to open it though I'm afraid, need to go to bed soon. However, I'm on holiday for a week after tonight's shift so no doubt I'll be trying it sometime soon...
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Willie JJ » Wed May 14, 2008 9:42 am

Nice Stuart. You do know that you're just winding up those that are waiting for a Corryvreckan don't you? :)
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby TheTross » Wed May 14, 2008 9:44 am

:wink:
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby les taylor » Wed May 14, 2008 9:45 am

Willie JJ wrote:Nice Stuart. You do know that you're just winding up those that are waiting for a Corryvreckan don't you? :)



And a Laphroiag.

I'm too tired to open it. Come on Stuart. :wink:
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby TheTross » Wed May 14, 2008 9:53 am

Why do I feel I'm currently the centre of attention...? :)

Nope, sorry Les, I won't be opening it just yet - as tempting as it is. The grand opening could possibly, maybe, perhaps happen sometime tomorrow though...
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Willie JJ » Wed May 14, 2008 9:54 am

How is it that people aren't getting in such a frezy about the arrival of the Cairdeas?
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby Willie JJ » Wed May 14, 2008 9:55 am

Frenzy I mean. No edit button here :x
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Re: Laphroaig Cairdeas - Feis Ile bottling

Postby fishboy » Wed May 14, 2008 10:01 am

Willie JJ wrote:How is it that people aren't getting in such a frezy about the arrival of the Cairdeas?


Maybe it's because Nick has put the mockers on our frezy? I've only just recovered from being told I've been "taken in" by the nefarious Ad-man. It's still too soon for me to develop a frezy.

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