Water with whisk(e)y: yes or no?

[challash]

It is a personal thing.

Personally I don't water the beautiful liquid down, I want to drink it as it comes out of the bottle.

My father in law, in the past, never added water but now he does. He says it brings out more flavours, but I am yet to be convinced.

If I was to try adding water, would it be a drop a drip or a splash?? I'd be interested in what others suggest.

[smithy1210]

Seeing as some neat whiskies make your lips and tongue feel slightly numb and tingly, surely it must have a similar anaesthetising effect on your taste buds? Which a dash of water would lessen?

Just a thought

[Bullie]

As the old saying goes:

'A Scotsman never drinks whisky without water, and never water without whisky!'

[emondhavi]

Six years exploring malts. Always had it neat, but found myself holding the liquor in my mouth for quite a while until it was sufficiently diluted with saliva to swallow it without feeling the burn. The result was that when drinking a strong malt, my tongue would feel numb after a while.

Then I realized that i was not really enjoying the flavor of the whisky at full strength, except in rare cases, so I tried adding various amounts of water. With some malts the water rendered the liquor quite flavorless, with others, the right amount made it open up and allowed me to enjoy its flavors from the moment the liquor entered my mouth.

To me, this has become the measure of whether the water is needed or not: I should be able to savor a whisky from the moment it enters my mouth, allowing me to appreciate all the variations of flavor that occur in the process, from attack to finish.

I've followed this rule ever since, with one caveat:

Some malts have such delicate balance of strength and flavor that if I taste them neat first, though they may appear a bit strong, after adding water, they appear too weak. However, if on another day I taste them with water first, then they appear just right. The first impression sets the tone. Not a strange experience for such a subjective matter as this business of tasting liquor is.

I've found that other factors also influence how I perceive the taste of the whisky at a given time, and therefore, the effect of adding water to it: The food I snack on while drinking, the time of the day, and even my mood.

My usual proportion of water to liquor is:

3/4 OZ of whisky
1/2 teaspoon of Evian water

I drink my whisky in a shot glass that has a 3/4 OZ mark - makes it easier to be consistant. It also allows me to pour only what I'm going to drink immediately. No finishing the "dram" out of guilt after I've had enough.

I drink whisky every single night of my life, and I always drink at home.

[zhi]

i never add any water to my whisky. as the last guy said, i hold the liquid in my mouth and dilute it with my own saliva as well.

i find as the alcohol concentration gradually decreases, i would experience different aromas and tastes. you really get a chance to taste the whisky at various levels of intensity, instead of one set percentage depending on the amount of water added.

and yes, my taste buds would go numb as well. but then it acts as a message telling me to stop drinking as i can no longer derive pleasure out of the activity and save the precious liquid for another day.

if i was looking to get drunk(rarely), i would not choose to drink expensive malt whisky.

[Deactivated Member]

For me, the answer to numbness from higher alcohol level is to take smaller sips. But whatever works for you is okay with me.

[Nock]

welshman

that is a very interesting story . . .

I have been having problems (acid reflux) over the past few months and it has curbed by alcohol consumption to a near dead stop. Only very recently have I again started to indulge in the occasional malt and even then I have watered it down a good bit (probably down to nearly 20% ABV) and so far things have been fine.

Truth be told I would rather enjoy my beverages at full strength, but I would rather enjoy hints of them then none at all

I am hoping that the lower ABV will keep my little “chest pains” from coming back.

Nock

[Deactivated Member]

Nock - try omeprazole (Losec) - cuts reflux dead.

[francolagana]

emondhavi makes a good point. I too found myself wondering if I was really enjoying my whisky straight, having to dilute it in my mouth before I could really taste it, and feeling that numbness after a while.

It seems to me that the point of all this single malt drinking is to enjoy a drink of superior quality, but if one has to "work", and even endure some discomfort before one can appreciate the flavor, is this really worth the money? It seems too little reward for too much money and effort.

I agree with the principle that a whisky that costs so much should provide full enjoyment from the moment it enters one's mouth. I've been adding a small amount of water to my whisky for a while and enjoying it a lot more.

In fact, I must admit that it was after adding water that I really started to appreciate this liquor that I've been exploring for a while.

I was encouraged to try the water when I saw a piece on the news about a single malt distillery (don't remember the name) and at the end of the piece the distiller poured whisky for himself and the reporter, and immediately after pouring the whisky he also poured a pretty generous amount of water from a jar into both glasses.

I said to myself, that's why I'm not enjoying this. That's what's missing. And I was right.

However, to each his/her own. If you really enjoy it straight, have it straight. It's all about enjoyment. But for what I read here it doesn't seem to me that people who only drink it straight are really enjoying it, rather, it seems more like they are enduring the initial discomfort to comform to some principle.

Also, you don't need to drink too much to feel that numbness, it happens pretty quickly. I also never get drunk, and I too drink every day.

[hpulley]

However, to each his/her own. If you really enjoy it straight, have it straight. It's all about enjoyment. But for what I read here it doesn't seem to me that people who only drink it straight are really enjoying it, rather, it seems more like they are enduring the initial discomfort to comform to some principle.

Franco, you contradict yourself in your own paragraph! First you say, "...to each his/her own." But then you say, "...it doesn't seem to me that people who only drink it straight are really enjoying it." How do you know? How do you know how I enjoy my scotch? For a first post, you present a very strong thesis but with no facts to back it up. Are you saying that first hand you have only observed people not enjoying their scotch when drank straight? You say it is just a dare for them, or a right of passage ritual?

I've experimented for years with adding water and to me, it always makes it worse so I always drink it straight and I enjoy it that way. If you enjoy it with water, please drink it that way but don't conclude that watered whisky is the only way to enjoy it. I don't cringe when I drink it straight, I enjoy it fully. Watered down it is just, well, watery to me but that doesn't make me conclude that no one can enjoy it that way; just me.

When it comes to the senses, each individual must decide for themself what is best. No one can tell you how to enjoy it, no matter what kind of expert they are said to be.

Harry

[mar_mcdo]

i dont generally drink my whisky with water, but there are some which i feel work well with just a touch. i do alot of nosing and tastings at work and i think its definatly important to nose and taste whithout water to begin with, then add and repeat to get the most from a whisky......

[Deactivated Member]

But for what I read here it doesn't seem to me that people who only drink it straight are really enjoying it, rather, it seems more like they are enduring the initial discomfort to comform to some principle.

I don't know where you get that idea. Those of us who drink it straight do so because we like it that way. When I started out, I used water because I found the drink too intense, but as I learned how to drink it, I found I didn't need water any more, and now rarely use it--occasionally a few drops in some more intense cask strengths. And while I may find the occasional one overpowering, I have never experienced "numbness", nor do I ever experience "initial discomfort". Obviously, my experience is different from yours. That's what makes the world go 'round.

Many folks here use water because they feel it "opens up" the whisky, allowing them to better appreciate aromas and flavors. That's fine, too. But again, that's not my experience. To me, whisky with water in it just tastes like watery whisky.

It's not a question of being "purist" or macho--it's just how I like it.

Damn, I'm working up a thirst! Too bad it's only 1:00. Well, it's 6:00 in the Bow Bar....

[francolagana]

Strong words!

OK, OK. Maybe I shouldn't have generalized.

I got "that idea" from a couple of posts I read. Like zhi, for example, who says that he dilutes the whisky with saliva, like emondhavi did, before swallowing it. Obviously he finds it too strong at first. Some other poster also mentioned experiencing numbness.

If you must dilute the drink before swalloing it, if you experience numbness after a while, to me that's not enjoying the drink from first impression to last, which, for my money, should be the point of drinking this expensive stuff. It seems like a compromise, a bit of work to get to the point of enjoyment.

This stuff is all subjective anyway. It's all about pleasure. Straight, watered down, with saliva, with ice, with soda ... whatever floats your boat. It's just booze, it's not religion.

BTW, MrTattieHeid: You said:

"I used water because I found the drink too intense, but as I learned how to drink it, I found I didn't need water any more"

I would love to learn too:

What's the right way to drink straight whisky?

Cheers!

[PeatPirate]

Hi all,

francolagana wrote:

But for what I read here it doesn't seem to me that people who only drink it straight are really enjoying it, rather, it seems more like they are enduring the initial discomfort to comform to some principle

When we put "a lot of" between that and people in the above quote I fully agree with it (hate to generalize).

I'm sure that a lot of people have strong opinions about this subject. Most of this people have probably never experimented with dilluting their CS whisky's to various strenghts (of alcohol)

I did and it was a surprising experience (not always positive off course)

I have a feeling however that this subject is sometimes hard to discuss because of the principles mentioned by Franco.

Too much alcohol sedates the tastebuds

Greetings,

PP

[francolagana]

Here's how subjective this is:

I've been drinking a bottle of Lagavulin 16 for a week now. One of the most delicious whiskies I've had so far!. I've been putting a bit of spring water in it all along, and enjoying it from the first drop, to the point that I've had to hold back because I like the stuff so much that I find myself drinking too much, too fast.

Last night, inspired by emondhavi's post, I decided to try the first glass of the night straight. It wasn't bad, but I did have to hold it in my mouth for a while, and I did not enjoy its flavor from the start as I had before.

When I had my second glass, I put my usual amount of water in it, had the first sip, and guess what: It tasted watery!

I set the glass aside, had something to eat, stopped drinking for about an hour, and then had another sip: Delicious!

I finished the second glass, and cursed myself for trying the experiment that ruined my drink, because now it was too late to have a third glass, and the bottle is just about gone!

Go figure.

franco

[hpulley]

The first time I ever tried Laga 16 I didn't like it but now 43% is no problem at all and I enjoy 60% ABV and higher cask strengths with no water. Whiskies from the '60s and '70s seem to have been filled strong compared to today (I guess warehouse space and casks were expensive) so you can get 60% ABV and up in 30-40yo whiskies. I think they're great straight but others like to take them with water and neither way is wrong or right.

My father in law takes blended whisky with water and ice and my father takes it with ice -- I'd never ice mine but whatever floats your boat is fine.

Experimenting is fine sometimes but there's nothing sadder than an overwatered glass of whisky! You can always add more water but to take the water out requires a still!

Harry

[lambda]

I must say I also find it hard to drink whiskies with a 50%+ ABV. It depends a bit on the whisky, but the most enjoyable whiskies are between 45% and 50% for me.

I have also noticed the problem that putting water in CS whiskies will often make it taste watery. I always thought this had something to do with marrying the water and whisky, but maybe it's because I always taste it neat before diluting.

Anyway, sounds like a good idea to experiment with adding water before tasting it. And if I overwatering it, I can always add more whisky to it

[Deactivated Member]

BTW, MrTattieHeid: You said:

"I used water because I found the drink too intense, but as I learned how to drink it, I found I didn't need water any more"

I would love to learn too:

What's the right way to drink straight whisky?

The right way is whatever works for you. I learned what worked for me. I'm always amazed at the variety of ways in which folks enjoy their drams--we had a lengthy discussion here once about the size of our sips! I tend to sip very small, allowing a thin film of whisky to coat my tongue, and feel that that is how I get the most from a dram. Others described taking quite large mouthfuls, which for me is more how to drink beer. But it's all a matter of personal preference, and if I seemed a bit testy there, it's because you seemed to be saying that people who do it differently from you cannot possibly be enjoying the drink. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but you do make inferences from others' statements that I think are off base--zhi's comments about saliva, for example. "Obviously he finds it too strong at first." No, he finds the saliva in his mouth is sufficient for transporting the whisky over his tongue without further dilution. (That's my inference.)

It's always interesting to hear how others experience things differently. It's never interesting to be told by someone else how you experience them.

Cheers back at you! Discussion is good.

[Frodo]

I was encouraged to try the water when I saw a piece on the news about a single malt distillery (don't remember the name) and at the end of the piece the distiller poured whisky for himself and the reporter, and immediately after pouring the whisky he also poured a pretty generous amount of water from a jar into both glasses.

Is it just me, or is what this distiller did very bad form?

[Deactivated Member]

Frodo, if that's how he likes it, it's perfectly good form! The blurb on a Rare Malts box suggests 2:1, water to whisky. I think it tastes awful that way, but obviously some people don't. (If I'd been the reporter, though, I'd have been miffed.)

Another point I wanted to make is that it interests me to know how other people do it, because I occasionally talk to individuals who are interested, or are going through the initial struggles, or are otherwise trying to increase their appreciation. When I can say to them "I do it like this, but the estimable Mr Francolagana does it like so; whereas Herr Piet Piraat swears by that method", I free them from the notion that there is one right way to do it, encourage them to experiment, and increase the chance that they find a suitable method for themselves. It is, we all agree, about the enjoyment of it, and not about any particular orthodoxy.

--Which doesn't stop us from laughing at people who use ice!

[The Dazzler]

Adding water to a whisky is just as selective as the choice between different whiskies. In my opinion some whiskies need a bit of water and others don't. Take into account that any whisky bottled at 40% or 43% (normal bottling strength), these whiskies have been diluted by the distiller at the bottling stage. A cask strength whisky enables the drinker to experiment here, is it best with our without water? Having a bottle of selected whisky before you allows the experimenter to try as it is, add water and even more water if need be. Buying a dram at a bar does not allow you the same oppertunity. If you buy a dram and add water then find that it benefits more withhout the addition of water you are screwed, you cant take the water back out. Plenty of whiskies benefit from that wee bit of reduction others don't, no right way or no wrong way in my opinion as long as it is enjoyed..

Slainte

[emondhavi]

franco,

Glad to hear a validation of my own experience.

I have been experimenting this way for a couple of years, until I finally realized that there was no doubt: Having the whisky at full strength first, undermines the outcome of having it with water right after. The strong taste of the undiluted whisky, even if you don't find it pleasant, somewhat deadens your taste-buds to the more subtle taste of the same whisky with water added.

My own experience with Lagavulin 16 was very similar to yours: Had it straight first: not impressed, added water: uncertain. Next night started out with the water: loved it!

For all those who are against the water, all I'm saying here is that if you want to give the water a fair chance, contrary to the norm, you must start with water first, and have more than one sip that way before you have it straight, as the first sip merely prepares the palate.

You can't go wrong with this approach, if the watered whisky is not to your liking, the full strength liquor will be. The diluted whisky will not deaden your taste-buds to the taste of full strength, if anything, it will make it appear more intense.

And if you are afraid to end up with a half glass of watered down whisky that now you don't want to finish, don't use a glass, have a shot instead.

Some folks may be hesitant to give the water a fair chance because of the same reason I did, because they are afraid to miss out on something - If it tastes better watered down, why do they sell it at that strength? Aren't they risking rejection?

We all agree that there is no better or worse. The liquor that brings us here is a flavorful and complex drink that molds itself to the taste of the drinker. However, we've all had plenty of whisky at full strength, but some people here may not have given the water a fair chance.

[Frodo]

Frodo, if that's how he likes it, it's perfectly good form! The blurb on a Rare Malts box suggests 2:1, water to whisky. I think it tastes awful that way, but obviously some people don't. (If I'd been the reporter, though, I'd have been miffed.)

I meant that the distiller watered someone elses whisky!

[PeatPirate]

Hi Mr. T


Mr. Tattieheid wrote:

whereas Herr Piet Piraat swears by that method

That's not quite what I meant when I said:

Most of this people have probably never experimented with dilluting their CS whisky's to various strenghts (of alcohol)
I did and it was a surprising experience (not always positive off course)

I still think that strong opinions should be formed by your own experience, not by principles, hearsay or distiller's (like diageo's 2:1 story on their CS bottles).

I personally never water whisky's with 40-50 % ABV. I like 1/2 of my CS whisky's diluted. certainly when I drink them for the first or 2nd time, and I want to experience full taste and smell.

And furthermore I also laugh at people who use Ice in their dram.
But a little whisky on my ice(cream:-) ) is very nice.

Greetz PP

[Deactivated Member]

Peaty, I just chose your name at random--I didn't mean it as a comment on anything you said. You are quite correct about opinion formation, and if I can help broaden someone's experience by relating the experiences of others, rather than just telling them how I think is best, then so much the better. And yes, I should broaden my own experience, as well...but I'm very happy with the way I'm doing things now!

[nicholtl]

franco,

Glad to hear a validation of my own experience.

I have been experimenting this way for a couple of years, until I finally realized that there was no doubt: Having the whisky at full strength first, undermines the outcome of having it with water right after. The strong taste of the undiluted whisky, even if you don't find it pleasant, somewhat deadens your taste-buds to the more subtle taste of the same whisky with water added.

My own experience with Lagavulin 16 was very similar to yours: Had it straight first: not impressed, added water: uncertain. Next night started out with the water: loved it!

For all those who are against the water, all I'm saying here is that if you want to give the water a fair chance, contrary to the norm, you must start with water first, and have more than one sip that way before you have it straight, as the first sip merely prepares the palate.

You can't go wrong with this approach, if the watered whisky is not to your liking, the full strength liquor will be. The diluted whisky will not deaden your taste-buds to the taste of full strength, if anything, it will make it appear more intense.

And if you are afraid to end up with a half glass of watered down whisky that now you don't want to finish, don't use a glass, have a shot instead.

Some folks may be hesitant to give the water a fair chance because of the same reason I did, because they are afraid to miss out on something - If it tastes better watered down, why do they sell it at that strength? Aren't they risking rejection?

We all agree that there is no better or worse. The liquor that brings us here is a flavorful and complex drink that molds itself to the taste of the drinker. However, we've all had plenty of whisky at full strength, but some people here may not have given the water a fair chance.

I think that's one of the most intelligent and well-thought posts I've read on this forum yet.

[francolagana]

Glad to help, emondhavi.

I agree with nicholti about the point you made on your post. It's definitely worth keeping in mind because it makes a lot of sense. If one is to try the water, try it first, you can't ruin the experiment that way. But if you go full strength first, you are difinitely stacking the deck in favor of drinking it neat, as the watered whisky most likely will taste watery after a straight shot.

I just started a bottle of Talisker 10 (my first Talisker), having it with a bit of water from the start, and I was surprised at how strong it still tasted that way. I haven't bothered yet to taste it straight. Oddly, the first night I had it I can't say I liked it, I was actually pretty disappointed, but mostly because I found it too overpowering.

However, the second night it was a completely different experience, even though I had it exactly the same way, I tasted flavors that the first night were not there at all, and the strong alcoholic content produced aromas that were quite pleasant. Now I really like it.

Is it me, or other people also have this experience of having their whisky exactly the same way on different occasions, but having it taste different each time?

franco

[Deactivated Member]

Absolutely. Even if the whisky is exactly the same, you are not--you bring a different subjective experience every time you have a dram. Such factors as what you have eaten or drunk will have an obvious effect, and such subtler factors as whether you are tired or dehydrated are almost impossible to measure.

As well, many of us have noted that a whisky tastes different immediately upon opening from what it will taste like after having been open for a day, a week, or a month. I've had more than a few bottles taste terrible at first opening, only to mellow into something marvelous after a day or two.

[anajulia]

Hello folks. New here, and new to single malts (compared to you experienced folks). This poll has exactly the answers that I was looking for.

I've been debating with this water issue for a while, and emondhavi hit on exactly the cause of my confusion - you can't have the straight drink before the watered one! I noticed that before, but due to my own beginner's insecurity, I didn't trust my own instincts.

Now I know that it's not all in my head.

I wonder what experts like Michael Jackson and Jim Murray have to say about this water with whisky issue. I've been reading their reviews on this site and taking notes.

I've been learning about single malt whisky for a year now, drinking every miniature that I can find, and buying some bottles. I find that my appreciation of one whisky is something that evolves with exposure to its taste, and the minis, though a a cost effective way to get introduced to new malts, don't give you enough liquor to really develop a taste for one particular malt.

I think that the ideal introductory size would be a pint. Which, as far as I can tell, single malt producers don't make.

Happy to have found this forum. I'll be back for more bits of wisdom.

Regards,

Ana Julia

[Deactivated Member]

There are some half bottles, AJ, although not a lot. Also, Douglas Laing puts out a fair number of 20cl "Advance Sample" bottles. Not knowing where you live, I have no idea whether these are available to you.

[hpulley]

The trouble with "you can't have the straight drink before the watered one" is: when you only have one sample you can't unwater it afterward!!! If you have a bottle you can try a dram watered first and a dram unwatered next but I guess you'd need to ask for an extra glass at a tasting and often they aren't available.

Harry

[Ed]

Hello MrTattieHeid,
Nope, you can't step in the same river twice, can you?
Ed

[Ed]

Hello All,
For the most part I only add water if the abv or some other factor is making the whiskey/whisky uncomfortable to drink.

Very occasionally, I will add a bit of whiskey/whisky to water to make a drink less potent than beer. It can be very nice.

Other times a water-whiskey/whisky ratio to around wine strength can be a very pleasant drink, one well suited to, "parsing out a whiskey/whisky" I don't do this very often.

We have a water cooler at home, Reverse Osmosis Seawater from deep in the ocean off Okinawa if I believe the promotional literature. Sometimes a small splash of water can open a whiskey/whisky up. I never add a precise drop or two to a pour. Sometimes a drop or two clings to the freshly rinsed glass. I don't notice a difference there.
Ed

Ps. Have you ever tried cutting a whiskey/whisky with a nice clean vodka? I have only done this once, yesterday in fact, but I plan on doing it again. I am not recommending this as a way to improve a whiskey/whisky, but rather as a way to understand it in a different way without watering it down.

[anajulia]

MrTattieHeid,

I live in New Jersey, but I come to New York regularly for work and I do most of my whisky shopping there. Isn't the Douglas Laing you mentioned in the UK? I thought you couldn't mail-order liquor from abroad.

BTW. I have had the toughest time finding single malt miniatures in New York, and even online. All the sites that I've found online with a good selection of minis are in Europe, mostly UK, like justminiatures.com.

In lieu of a more appropiate pint size or half bottle, minis are still the most cost effective intro to a new malt. Any suggestions on where to get minis, in this country?

The only half bottle I've ever found in New York is Macallan 12.

I agree with hpulley that when sampling at bars or tastings where you only get one drink, it is risky to add or not add water, depending on which one you are most likely to favor. I don't go to bars, and at restaurants I stick to what I know.

I recently heard of "WhiskyFest, New York", which I missed. It's organized by Maltadvocate.com, and it sounds great. Anybody here attended this before?

Regards,

Ana Julia

[Wendy]

Hi Ana Julia,

I recently heard of "WhiskyFest, New York", which I missed. It's organized by Maltadvocate.com, and it sounds great. Anybody here attended this before?

On the whisky forum check out the Events thread and scroll to the subject titled, WhiskyFest NYC on 9 Nov. That should give you a general impression of what attendees thought of the event.

Cheers,
Wendy