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Worst whisky enemy!

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Worst whisky enemy!

Whisky colouring (E150)
5
17%
Chillfiltering
3
10%
The Accountant
4
13%
Moonshine / Counterfeight
1
3%
Theft (Trucks mainly)
0
No votes
The Whisky Collector
0
No votes
The Government (Taxes etc.)
15
50%
The Climate Change
2
7%
Fire (warehouses)
0
No votes
Other enemy
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 30

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:32 pm

Wow! Great question. Having just railed against trendy marketers over on the other thread, I am tempted to do so again here. But I think I will have to give this more thought.
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Postby Paul A Jellis » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:17 pm

My vote went to 'The Government', not just for how much they make in duty and tax, and how much that adds to a bottle of whisky.

It is also because our Government is constantly telling us how to live our lives, what to eat, how much exercise to take and how many 'units' of alcohol we should be drinking. We all know that now they have made it almost impossible (and illegal) to smoke a cigar with your dram in public that they will turn their attention to 'the demon drink' next.

In another ten or twenty years it could be illegal to drink in public. It happened in America, it could happen here, if the 'do-gooders' get their way.

Sorry for the rant.

Cheers

Paul
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Added junk!

Postby Di Blasi » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:37 pm

Why add to whisky something to make the marketer's job easier, or to make the mainstream buyer more comfortable? Color is added for consistency right? Well, I prefer to drink my whisky inconsistent and untainted from someone telling me this is the color "they expect it to be," even if that someone is the master distiller or the general manager etc. I'd rather drink my whisky the way the cask has nurtured it for so many years. Why fix something not broken? Added junk is definitely the worst enemy of whisky. I'm not a fan of chill-filtering either. Whisky to me is special, very special, and I like to enjoy it free of added stuff or with "special stuff" removed!
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Postby Tom » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:46 pm

Well said Paul, no apologies needed. In fact if everyone would open their mouth instead of do as they're told perhaps the government would finally listen to us instead of vice versa.

However, in scotch I dont believe it is enemy number one, maybe number 2 or 3 though. If you look at history of scotch you will find that whatever people try to do, they cant stop people making, and people loving scotch. They tried just about everything in the past and in the end the scots gave them the finger and now we're all enjoying whisky anyway.
There is however one thing that can pose a real treat. and thats mother nature. Offcourse its our own fault and blablabla, but we are limited to the amount of rain, peat supply and oak supply. Already I have heard rumours that the water is diminishing little by little for certain distilleries. Peat will eventually be gone, like it or hate it but thats a rock hard fact and lastly, if an oak is over 100 years old before they cut it and make casks from it, I wonder how many casks can be produced by one tree, additionally multiply that with the demand for bourbon casks in the states for example. Im not good at math but something tells me we are depleting mother nature's gifts a lot faster then we can replenish them. And when they're gone, its really gone. So what i'm saying is enjoy your drams as much as you can, we wont see it but eventually there wont be any more whisky.
I am confident that everything else they throw at it, the scots can survive. they did it before and can do it again.
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Worst whisky enemy

Postby Danny » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:20 am

Well, I voted for government mainly because, I could purchase more if they did not tax so heavily.

However, in reading Tom's reply, very well said Tom, I would have to agree that the greatest enemy to whisky is likely to be the use of critical resources to make it.

Population expansion, land loss and use of natural resources will eventually take it's toll on the whisky industry. Likely not in my time, but perhaps to some extent.

JUst in case back to my Ardbeg.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:41 am

Tom, you are spot on, and, as much as we try to avoid politics here, we must take a good hard look at those who choose to stick their heads in the sand regarding climate change. Are we back to government here? Of course, if climate change does indeed turn out to be that disastrous, whisky will be the least of our worries. There will likely be releases of Port Ellen long after we've all starved to death.

Paul, with all due respect, I take arguments that the government tries to control our behavior with a grain of salt, when they come from smokers. The thing that smokers don't seem to get is that smoking affects other people around the smoker, and that's why it has been banned in public places. Even if second-hand smoke were not noxious, it's still obnoxious. When you figure out a way to do it without exhaling, no one will much care.

Let's see, who else can I offend today? Still working up my rant on marketers.
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Postby Lawrence » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:15 am

Taxes! Therefore government.

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Taxes

Postby Muskrat Portage » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:50 am

Damned revenooers !

Death and taxes, the only sure things in life. Provincial protectionism is pretty high up there as well, not to mention monopolistic restrictions. :x (It's income tax time) :evil: Musky P.
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Postby Badmonkey » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:25 am

Excellent point on inter-provincial trade barriers, Musky P. I don't know what they are like south of the border or in European countries, but Canadian inter-provincial trade barriers were one of the most serious hindrances to the growth of small, local breweries in Canada. They haven't made much sense in other industries here, either, but I'll save that for another forum.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:42 am

Here's another comment on international trade - specifically within the EU:

The distilleries that I want to buy from are in Scotland.
I live near to Munich in Germany.

Both these countries are in the EU and there are officially NO customs or trading restrictions between any EU countries.

Yet many distillery shops & websites say "We are NOT ALLOWED to ship whiskies outside of the UK"

That's a load of rubbish!

Coincidentally, these restrictions have only been imposed by the distilleries themselves since the law on being able to return goods if the buyer is unhappy was introduced.
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Re: Worst whisky enemy!

Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:18 am

C_I wrote: or the whisky collector that absorbs all good bottles to put into a cupboard, never to be seen/drunk again


I can't believe the ignorance that some posters demonstrate towards collectors. How can buying whisky damage the industry? Fools!

If you honestly believe that every bottle of whisky should be drunk - buy collectable bottles and drink them. But collectability is not correlated to quality of whisky anyway - it is based on rarity, desirability, nice packaging, etc. And keeping a bottle in a cupboard doesn't prevent it being drunk at a later date, if you must. Arguments about driving prices up are also specious. High prices help the industry, and why should one potential buyer complain that another is prepared to offer a higher price? Or should we set a standard price at £25 a bottle, regardless of contents? I suspect this would not help to drive up quality.

And are accountants really the enemy either? Distilleries have to be profitable and if they aren't, they will die. That has happened throughout history and will continue for ever. Why blame the poor accountant who merely demonstrates the fact that a distillery is not viable. Why not blame the customers for not buying enough of the stuff? Or blame the distillers for not making whisky that people want to buy? Or blame the marketers for not persuading people that they wanted to buy it? Or blame the new distillers like Arran who join a crowded market place and squeeze out the Pittyvaichs of this world?
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Postby Aidan » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:03 am

MrTattieHeid wrote:Tom, you are spot on, and, as much as we try to avoid politics here, we must take a good hard look at those who choose to stick their heads in the sand regarding climate change. Are we back to government here? Of course, if climate change does indeed turn out to be that disastrous, whisky will be the least of our worries. There will likely be releases of Port Ellen long after we've all starved to death.

Paul, with all due respect, I take arguments that the government tries to control our behavior with a grain of salt, when they come from smokers. The thing that smokers don't seem to get is that smoking affects other people around the smoker, and that's why it has been banned in public places. Even if second-hand smoke were not noxious, it's still obnoxious. When you figure out a way to do it without exhaling, no one will much care.

Let's see, who else can I offend today? Still working up my rant on marketers.


Absolutely right. First of all, governments get their information on how much you should drink etc from scientists. The government does not tell you what to eat or how much to exercise; they tell you how much you should eat or exercise to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

When it comes to smoking in public places, the vast majority of the people support the government. In Ireland, the ban was enforced because it was a danger to employees, not for the general public. I have no objection to someone smoking beside me, as it happens, but it is a fact that this is harmful to people's health.
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:08 am

Paul A Jellis wrote:....... We all know that now they have made it almost impossible (and illegal) to smoke a cigar with your dram in public that they will turn their attention to 'the demon drink' next.

.......

Paul



I can just see you now .... walking down the high street puffing away on a cigar in you left hand and a brow paper bag in the right :wink: :lol: :mrgreen:
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Postby Aidan » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:11 am

WhiskyHammer wrote:Here's another comment on international trade - specifically within the EU:

The distilleries that I want to buy from are in Scotland.
I live near to Munich in Germany.

Both these countries are in the EU and there are officially NO customs or trading restrictions between any EU countries.

Yet many distillery shops & websites say "We are NOT ALLOWED to ship whiskies outside of the UK"

That's a load of rubbish!

Coincidentally, these restrictions have only been imposed by the distilleries themselves since the law on being able to return goods if the buyer is unhappy was introduced.


This might be because of agreements the distillery has with the distributor in the country they won't post to. Just guessing, though. I know you can bring up to 12 litres of spirits from one country to another in the EU. If you are bringing more than this, you just have to prove it's for you own use.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:25 am

Thanks Aidan,
I hadn't thought of distributor agreements.
However, I often try to buy the special editions for my own personal collection and these are not distributed by normal channels.

A couple of examples:
3 Years ago I bought what was then the latest issue of Macallan ESC, directly via the website and shipped to Germany.
Since that EU trading agreement Macallan have changed their shipping policy. During this whole time they have used the same distributor in Germany.

Very recently I tried to buy the HP "Ambassador" Cask 43.
Same reply!
I gave a UK address which will privately forward to me and there was no problem.
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:25 am

Anyway I voted for taxes as I am finding it harder to justify spending big money on the rarer/ top of the range bottles. We in the Rep of Ireland have to pay 55% excise and wait for it 21% VAT (value added tax) on top of that again. This I find really maddening :evil: However on reflection I too agree that Tom has hit the nail on the head. At the end of the day we all find that few quid to spend on a bottle whether we have to buy a cheaper bottle is another question.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:27 am

Wow! I thought Germany was the land of high taxation.
Next year VAT rises to 19% which is pretty unpopular, but 21% !!! Plus that Excise.
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Postby Aidan » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:33 am

That's why it's often cheaper for me to buy my Irish whiskey in Germany and have it posted here...

In Germany, Redbreast 15 is about 50 euro, whereas in Ireland, it's about 85 euro...
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:10 pm

WhiskyHammer wrote:Wow! I thought Germany was the land of high taxation.
Next year VAT rises to 19% which is pretty unpopular, but 21% !!! Plus that Excise.


Total bummer, and I do the same as Aidan... I buy In Germany, the Netherlands and or France regularly and get the it posted.

What I find hard to understand is paying 21% vat on the 55% excise already paid :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Postby Scotchio » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:51 pm

Trade laws it seems are anything but free and taxation is variable as are special offers and outlet agreements. I think Whisky Hammers solution of getting a UK buyer to purchase and pass on is often the only way around it.I've spent a lot of time lately researching prices and availability of collectable whiskies whilst waiting for supply teaching clearance to come through and I'd be happy to help members out if I can track down their special bottles at a satisfactory price.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:47 pm

Interestingly enough, I sold a few spare bottles through Ebay during 2005 and 60% of my buyers were in Scotland!

The local Post Office were greatly amused at me sending Whisky to Scotland.

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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:08 pm

WhiskyHammer wrote:Interestingly enough, I sold a few spare bottles through Ebay during 2005 and 60% of my buyers were in Scotland!

The local Post Office were greatly amused at me sending Whisky to Scotland.

WH


Just like myself and Aidan getting Redbreast 15yo in Germany which is only available in 1 retail store in Ireland .... :roll: and 35% dearer :? So it may not be a bad thing that you are in Germany after all :lol:
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Postby Lawrence » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:40 pm

Well said Nick, people forget that a collector may not drink his bottle but somebody will, it's just a matter of scheduling if you will. In another one large company was slammed for making a sudden profit, good for them, then they have some spare money to invest in distilleries and produce some more whisky.
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Postby Scotty Mc » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:31 pm

The Government (even though I work in 'that' department!). It is ludicrous the amount of duty there is on spirits and alcohol in general (I'm at work tomorrow so I'll see if I can dig the rates out). Most Governments are out to exploit the public at any opportunity. I remember seeing a website which should the amount of money is made by the distiller, wholesale and Government. I'm afraid I cannot find it!

Same with fuel too. A litre of petrol starts life at the cost the company is willing to sell, then add on the fuel duty, then add VAT onto the cost and the duty!
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Postby Aidan » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:10 pm

I agree that some things are taxed too highly, and whisky is one of them. But does the government produce a surplus of money each year? Your NHS is practically bankrupt, so you need to get the money from somewhere to pay for services etc. If you take tax off one thing, you have to put it on another.
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Taxes...

Postby Muskrat Portage » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:23 pm

Scotty Mc wrote:The Government (even though I work in 'that' department!).

Are you a... :x (gasp)..."revenoor"?
I admit, in a previous incarnation, I worked hand in glove with Revenue Canada in enforcements on a number of occasions. Also, Her Majesty the Queen in the Right of Ontario does provide my stipend, which is acquired in part from taxes on whisky and petrol. Might we cut out the middle man and just take payment in whisky, Scotty Mc?
Taxes are an evil, but one which allows some of us to live off the labour of others. Musky P.
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Postby parvus » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:50 pm

Without most of the enemies in our list, I doubt we'd have the industry we have today, so it's difficult to pick one that is the worse than the other. I would say however that things like coloring, chillfiltering and other unnecesary processing of whisky add nothing positive now days, when consumers are much more aware of what these things to do their malt.

I also don't like this trend to give whisky a more hip or trendy image. As someone mentioned earlier, young money is quick, fickle money, and once the next thing comes around they'll be gone, and so will the money.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:37 pm

The great enemies of all that is truly good are ignorance and apathy.
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:25 pm

Just had another thought on why I hate the excise man so much. In Ireland we get very little cask strength offerings and I would nearly put that down to the excise duties that are imposed on the abv of a bottle. As far as I'm aware Connemara cask strength is the only continious /regular bottling of an Irish cask strength whiskey. Anything else in that catagory is a limited edition. Even there used to be a difference between the regular fare offered in Ireland and that in Europe of the US. We'd get the 40% version while everybody else got a 43% version. Totally unfair :evil:

But it's scenario's like that that has affected the irish market for years.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:25 pm

I think the government option is a bit of a given and a bit obvious. Actually the worst enemies to whisky are those who mix it with diluting orange :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Postby patrick dicaprio » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:27 pm

definitely the government. the taxes on whisky are too high, and most of those other things you mention are in my control. the government is an enemy ofmost things so this isnt a surprise.

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IWC be careful

Postby Muskrat Portage » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:18 am

irishwhiskeychaser wrote:Just had another thought on why I hate the excise man so much...

SHHHH, We have two of them around! :twisted: Musky P.
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Re: IWC be careful

Postby Ize » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:28 pm

Poll seems to be over, but there wasn't option for ice. :) I would have voted it .... naah, just kidding, goverment (in Finland) is the main problem.
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Postby rifkin » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:53 pm

I'm not a socialist or a grim commie-government-hater, but my God, if the taxation on alcohol had been lower, I could afford to taste so many more whiskies.

Therefore, government.
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