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Glenfiddich- Pronunciation

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How is Glenfiddich pronounced?

"Glenfiddich" (as in "sandwich")
1
5%
"Glenfiddikh"
20
95%
"Glenfidee"
0
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Total votes : 21

Glenfiddich- Pronunciation

Postby bond » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:50 pm

Have heard various pronunciations and each multiple whisky books/pronunciation websites provide no conclusive anwer.

Wonder if the forum could help.
Last edited by bond on Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:09 pm

Very often the Scottish pronunciation of "ch" is a more throaty sound, like the German "ch".
This is evident in the correct pronunciation of Loch.

Therefore I would say that is how Glenfiddich should be pronounced, but unfortunately it is not one of your options.

WH
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:11 pm

I would say none of the above. "Ch" in Scotland is almost always pronounced as a guttaral (like the end of loch; a "j" in Spanish Spanish; or the "x" in "Mexico" in 1950s cartoons). This is often transliterated as "kh", giving a pronunciation of "glen fiddikh".

The only exceptions to the "kh" pronunciation that I can think of are:

Glenkinchie - pron. "glen kinsee" because it is a corruption of the Norman French name "de Quincy"

Glen Garioch - pron "glen geary" for reasons I have never understood
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Postby bond » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:17 pm

Have edited one of the options slightly. Hope to hv more responses from within the available options.
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Postby Scotchio » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:40 pm

Glen fee duck....
Chinese house speciality in east end restaurant(London)
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:48 pm

bond wrote:Have edited one of the options slightly. Hope to hv more responses from within the available options.


I hope you get more responses within the second option - the others are simply incorrect.
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Postby Scotchio » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:11 pm

Nick Brown wrote:
bond wrote:Have edited one of the options slightly. Hope to hv more responses from within the available options.


I hope you get more responses within the second option - the others are simply incorrect.


Mine was just a lame joke. I've always pronounced it as per No 2
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:13 pm

To add another one:

Glen Mhor = Glen Vawr
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Postby Scotchio » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:24 pm

And don't forget Glen Geary(Garioch)
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:36 pm

WhiskyHammer wrote:To add another one:

Glen Mhor = Glen Vawr


That one is actually more complicated. Gleann is masculine and so Mor should not aspirate - it should be spelt Glen Mor and pronounced as written. Glen Mor is the name of the Great Glen (also known as Glen Albyn) and is always spelt that way in atlases.

Glen Mhor is, I think, just to look a bit twee and has no basis in real Gaelic grammar.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:44 pm

Thanks Nick, but I was just repeating what I read some time ago regarding this pronunciation.

I am now looking around to find the said publication.
WH
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Postby Lone » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:48 pm

I pronounce it as it is done on this page: http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/jhb/whisky/pronounc.html
Nice site to get to know the 'right' pronounciation of the various labels.

/edit/ whohoo first post :o
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:59 pm

Lone wrote:I pronounce it as it is done on this page: http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/jhb/whisky/pronounc.html
Nice site to get to know the 'right' pronounciation of the various labels.

/edit/ whohoo first post :o


This site suggests pronouncing Allt a'Bhainne as "allt a bane" which is so far wrong it is unbelievable. I suggest you take their pronunciations with a pinch of salt.

I know most people do say "Glen Mhor", but that is because they want to imagine they are good at pronouncing Gaelic. Unfortunately, in doing so, they demonstrate that they are not so good at understanding it!
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Postby Scotchio » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:25 pm

Nick Brown wrote:
WhiskyHammer wrote:To add another one:

Glen Mhor = Glen Vawr


That one is actually more complicated. Gleann is masculine and so Mor should not aspirate - it should be spelt Glen Mor and pronounced as written. Glen Mor is the name of the Great Glen (also known as Glen Albyn) and is always spelt that way in atlases.

Glen Mhor is, I think, just to look a bit twee and has no basis in real Gaelic grammar.


Are you sure you are not the head of a highly selective grammar school ?
Educational as ever Nick :D
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Postby lambda » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:53 pm

So what about bruichladdich.. why doesn't that have a guttural at the end? Is this simply pronounced incorrectly all the time, or is there a grammatical reason?
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:59 pm

Oh no.... Now you've done it, lambda!

:P
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Postby Scotchio » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:54 pm

Glen Geary Bruckladdie it's all Scotch to me!
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:36 pm

I have to side with Nick on this - the second option is the only one that is in the area but only just. Hard to pronounce in writing - Think Liechtenstien.
Last edited by Deactivated Member on Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:47 pm

That's "Liechtenstein", Crieftan, and I'm not just being Picky--in German, ch is pronounced entirely differently after i or u.

"Bruckladdie"--heh. Nick will like that. "Bruck" is trash. In Shetland, there are anti-dumping signs reading "Dinna chuck bruck".
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:51 pm

MrTattieHeid wrote:That's "Liechtenstein", Crieftan, and I'm not just being Picky--in German, ch is pronounced entirely differently after i or u.



Yup - fat finger syndrome again! :oops: This is how wars start!! :P
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Postby Scotchio » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:30 pm

MrTattieHeid wrote:That's "Liechtenstein", Crieftan, and I'm not just being Picky--in German, ch is pronounced entirely differently after i or u.

"Bruckladdie"--heh. Nick will like that. "Bruck" is trash. In Shetland, there are anti-dumping signs reading "Dinna chuck bruck".


Should it be Brew ich laddie? Feel a bit of a tart saying that in a bar! As for Bruck laddie would that be a form of Serendipity to Nick?
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Postby Jan » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:46 pm

Lone wrote:I pronounce it as it is done on this page: http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/jhb/whisky/pronounc.html
Nice site to get to know the 'right' pronounciation of the various labels.

/edit/ whohoo first post :o


Hi Lone

Welcome to the forums. Thank you for the link :)

Cheers
Jan
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:19 pm

It's all colloquial... the same in Ireland. Same word different pronunciation depending where your from. Same the world over really but just in Gaelic.
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Postby MGillespie » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:58 am

Interviewed the former master distiller at Glenfiddich today for the show...and he pronounces it "glen-fiddick". Good enough for me...especially given my track record with pronunciation problems in the past...

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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:34 am

ick for me too... but it is even confusing for me too even though I can speak the Irish version of Gaelic. Scotch Gaelic though is a different ball game all together. A lot of similarities but just as many differences too :roll:
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:38 am

MGillespie wrote:Interviewed the former master distiller at Glenfiddich today for the show...and he pronounces it "glen-fiddick". Good enough for me...especially given my track record with pronunciation problems in the past...

Mark


I disagree with this sentiment profoundly. Just because an (ex)employee uses a particular pronunciation does not make it correct. Language belongs to all of us, not just a distillery employee or marketing man. In this case, I would ask him how he arrived at a hard "ck" sound from the spelling. My guess is that he would either say you had misheard, or that he had "adapted" the pronunciation for marketing purposes.

In terms of Bruichladdich, the correct pronunciation is, and always has been: bru - ikh - khlad - ikh. Brook-laddie is a latterday invention with both incorrect pronunciation and incorrect parsing. It is presumably designed to help people pronounce a long word by reducing the number of sounds, and offering English words to create a false meaning - thereby aiding memory. In linguistic terms, this is unutterably bad practice.

I have a book published in 1993 that suggested Brewick-laddie which, whilst I think it is still incorrect, does suggest a position that has not been constant, even within the distillery's marketing department.

I know some people think I am picky on this. Actually, I can let incorrect pronunciation slide. But it offends me greatly to hear people asserting facts that are wrong.
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Postby Mr Fjeld » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:38 am

Just a question Nick - how would the average scot pronounce Glenfiddich - and is there a difference between the galic and non-galic speaking scots?
The reason why I'm asking is that the norwegian language has a lot of words taken up and given various pronounications by other languages. Also, within the norwegian language you have new ways of pronouncing words - and spelling for that matter - over time! Is galic the reason for controversy in Scotland between the "language police" who try to create a "static" language instead of aknowlidging the fact that language naturally - or should I say culturally - is in constant dynamic change?

Christian
Last edited by Mr Fjeld on Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby kallaskander » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:38 am

Hi there,

I got my pronunciation of Glenfiddich from a television feature about whisky on German television years ago. Mr Grant himself sampled Glenfiddich from a barrel and pronounced it with a German ch as in "loch".
Should I as a German contradict him? 8)

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Postby Mr Ellen » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:16 am

Nick Brown wrote:
MGillespie wrote:Interviewed the former master distiller at Glenfiddich today for the show...and he pronounces it "glen-fiddick". Good enough for me...especially given my track record with pronunciation problems in the past...

Mark


I disagree with this sentiment profoundly. Just because an (ex)employee uses a particular pronunciation does not make it correct. Language belongs to all of us, not just a distillery employee or marketing man. In this case, I would ask him how he arrived at a hard "ck" sound from the spelling. My guess is that he would either say you had misheard, or that he had "adapted" the pronunciation for marketing purposes.

In terms of Bruichladdich, the correct pronunciation is, and always has been: bru - ikh - khlad - ikh. Brook-laddie is a latterday invention with both incorrect pronunciation and incorrect parsing. It is presumably designed to help people pronounce a long word by reducing the number of sounds, and offering English words to create a false meaning - thereby aiding memory. In linguistic terms, this is unutterably bad practice.

I have a book published in 1993 that suggested Brewick-laddie which, whilst I think it is still incorrect, does suggest a position that has not been constant, even within the distillery's marketing department.

I know some people think I am picky on this. Actually, I can let incorrect pronunciation slide. But it offends me greatly to hear people asserting facts that are wrong.


Who decides what is the correct pronunciation of a word...is it the disillery workers, owners or the locals who have been living there for ages? Or do we leave it to some producer of a TV Cast? Or do we read it in a book?
Or should we listen to the icons of whisky like Michael Jackson, Jim Murray or Dave Broom?
I think this issue is rubbish. Ask one person and you will get a certain answer, ask a second and he/she will undoubtely argue for his/her point.

Take Auchroisk for example. The locals here insist that the name should be pronounced Ach Rask while the manager of the distillery says it should be Auch Roysk...now who is correct??? :?
As long as you don't twist the word into something undefinable I don't think it matters at all if you pronounce it one way or another. :wink:


Cheers
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:21 am

I don't view this as trying to create a static language or trying to prevent natural change. This is about marketing people "creating" new and simplified pronunciations (and making false analogies with English words) to make whisky brandnames easier to pronounce and easier to remember for people around the world. As it happens, Gaelic is undergoing plenty of change, with recent simplification of accents and spelling, creation of words for thirty, forty, fifty, etc, and standardization of the genetive case.

I accept that there are variations in pronunciation of both English and Gaelic throughout Scotland. However, the pronunciation of "ch" in words of Gaelic origin is not subject to any variation within Scotland as far as I know. It is, as Kallaskander says, like "ch" in the German word "Loch" (which doesn't mean lake!).
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Postby Jan » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:23 am

Mr Ellen wrote:As long as you don't twist the word into something undefinable I don't think it matters at all if you pronounce it one way or another. :wink:


Yeah, personally I'm secure in knowing I probably pronounce them all wrong and with a danish accent :D

Cheers
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Postby Mr Ellen » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:53 am

Nick Brown wrote:However, the pronunciation of "ch" in words of Gaelic origin is not subject to any variation within Scotland as far as I know. It is, as Kallaskander says, like "ch" in the German word "Loch" (which doesn't mean lake!).


I had to look this up and read the following:
"When consonants are followed by 'h' a change of sound occur,
- when broad, as in loch (not lock'!)
- when slender, as the German ich"

Obviously this means there are at least two ways to pronounce 'ch'.

In this context it could be mentioned that only 1.5% of the Scottish population speak Gaelic and that the Gaelic language was a latecomer on the Scottish shores. Other Celtic languages such as Pictish and Brittonic had existed prior to the arrival by Gaelic speakng Celts from Ireland.

Sorry, for bringing the subject to these proportions... :? :shock: ...but I think there are always two sides to every story, I mean two ways to pronounce a name..

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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:08 pm

The difference in pronunciation of "ch" caused by a following broad vowel and a following slender vowel is negligible and always gutteral. Other lenited consonants (dh springs to mind) do have differing pronunciations, but ch is really very stable.

The question of whether or not you speak Gaelic is pretty irrelevant. A word brought from Gaelic into common parlance (loch, for example) will still broadly follow Gaelic pronunciation rules. There may well be some slippage in pronunciation over time, but there are still rules. I'm afraid in the case of ch, there are not two sides to the story. In words of Gaelic origin, when used in Scottish English, the ch is always a gutteral. There are no exceptions. There are no regional differences. There is just no debate to be had.
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Postby Scotchio » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 pm

Auchroisk= Oh Christ!
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:48 pm

The simplified transliteration "brook laddie" merely reflects the difficulty of explaining to speakers of one language the pronunciation of a word in another. One sees this often with English approximations of Gaelic names.

As far as I'm concerned, the correct pronunciation of the name is the one used by the people who live there, regardless of whether it conforms to the rules of the language of origin. These names are derived from Gaelic; they aren't Gaelic, any more than the capital of my state is St Botolph's Town. Unfortunately, Bruichladdich is a very small village, and the only people I've ever met who lived there were English incomers. But if "bruch laddie" has become common usage, then it cannot be called wrong, much as that idea irritates Mr Picky, who chafes at the notion that the unwashed masses can make the illogical correct merely by repeating it enough.
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