View topic - Bourbon vs. Scotch

by **bond** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:06 pm

I will need some help at this point in time as I take bamber's advice and move on to some decent bourbon drinking as well.

A friend of mine is travelling to the U.S. and I intend to get a couple of bottles of bourbon. (Price range USD- 20 to 25 )

What would you recommend? My exposure to bourbon/tenessee whiskey is limited to Jack Daniels and Jim Beam (Black & White)

I normally prefer Islays when it comes to malt whisky. Keeping this is mind, what bourbon would you folks recommend??

Cheers,

Bond

by **bamber** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:32 pm

I (like you am an Islay fan - especially Ardbeg). With that in mind, I'll mention a few in that range that I like a lot:

Wild Turkey Russell Reserve
Elijah Craig 12YO
Buffalo Trace
Ancient Ancient Age 10yo - not to be confused with the 10-Star

by **clayton jr** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:56 pm

If you're a fan of the Islay heavyweights, I would recommend trying the heavies of the bourbon world, as well:

* George T. Stagg (if you can manage to acquire a bottle of it), straight from the barrel
* Wild Turkey "Rare Breed" -- bottled at barrel proof (that's "cask strength" to you Scotch types)
* Wild Turkey "Russell's Reserve" -- A dense and rich 10-year-old, inexpensive and among my favorites. 101°
* Booker's -- bottled uncut and unfiltered (usually at 60%ABV+)
* Old Rip Van Winkle 15/107 -- 15 years old, 107°, with the delicious nose of maple and cinnamon. Incredible.

by **bamber** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:28 am

Hi Clayton (recognise you from straightbourbon.com)

Great choices - but he's going to have a tougt time getting them for $ 20-25

As an aside - had some VW 15YO for the first time in a couple of months last night and enjoyed it more than ever - it really is an incredible drink. How can wheat, corn and wood produce such distinctive flavours. It really does taste of maple cinnamon crunch, super rich, super sweet cereal. Mmmmm mm.

by **Frodo** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:37 pm

I quite like Maker's Mark at your price range. It's not the most aggressive tasting Boubon, but it is a nice whisky for the price.

Regards
Frodo

by **SasquatchMan** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:53 am

YES! Frodo is bang on. Maker's Mark is not only better tasting than 90% of the "fancy" bourbons out there, but it is not particularly expensive, and has no "special" gimmickry to it. If you can't stand Maker's Mark, forget about bourbon.

If I remember right, MM uses winter wheat rather than rye in the mash, so it isn't exactly a "standard" bourbon, but it sure as hell is the real thing. Sweet and spicy, it smells so good in the glass it makes you hungry. Happy Hunting.

by **bamber** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:34 am

Personally, MM is not one of my favourites. I would have to respectfully disagree with SasquatchMan on this one, because I love Bourbon but not MM. I'm trying to think why, but all I can say is that I don't really like the taste

It is indeed a wheated Bourbon but so are Weller and most Van Winkle whiskies (to name but 2) and I certainly * do * like those. Takes all sorts.

by **brian12069** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:04 pm

Makers Mark was one of my favorites when I first started drinking bourbon. Now, I haven't even had it in quite some time, I find it kind of boring...there are definitely better pours out there.

by **Frodo** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:33 pm

The real issue here though is to tie this conversation to the thread, and that relates to recommendations for bourbons that Wynn can try at $20-$25 US. So my question is this; are there other bourbons you would recommend above Makers Mark at it's price range :?:

. In Ontario, Knob Creek, Bakers, Basil Hayden are all more expensive. And that seems to be all the LCBO offers near that price range.

As an aside, MM is definatly NOT like other bourbons - lighter, and less intense... (sugary/mapley/orangey/vanillaey etc.). I can totally understand and sympathise with die hard bourbon drinkers who now find it boring. I don't, but I can see why others would.

Regards
Frodo

by **Frodo** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 6:37 pm

If you like more intense bourbons, I highly recommend Elmer T Lee single barrel. In Ontario, it doesn't cost that much more than Makers Mark ($34 to $41) when taking the jump in quality into consideration.

Just a thought Wynn.

Regards
Frodo

by **brian12069** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:06 am

I recommend Old Fitzgeralds 1849...(do not confuse with regular old fitzgeralds) In NY its about 15 bucks for 750 ml....absolutely delicious!

by **Frodo** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:20 am

The W.L.Weller 12yr old goes for a quite reasonable $26 cdn ($19 US) in Ontario . Not the greatest, but not the worst either.

Frodo

by **Laphroaig** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:24 pm

Frodo:

Van Winkle 10 (90º)
Van Winkle 10 (107º)
WL Weller 7 (90º)
WL Weller 7 (107º)
WL Weller 12 (90º)
Eagle Rare 10 SB (90º)
Eagle Rare 10 (101º)
Elmer T. Lee
Buffalo Trace
Elijah Craig 12 (94º)
Old Forrester Bond (100º)
Wild Turkey 101º

are decent - a couple are near M.M. but the majority of the above are less expensive.

You may want to consider saving up to get into the 27.00-45.00 range. There are some gems stuffed in there!

by **Frodo** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:36 pm

Laphroig:

Thanks for the tip. In Ontario, most of the options you put up are either more expensive or not available (the price of having a gov't monopoly on liquor stores). The only one that is less expensive is the Wild Turkey 101 and Buffalo Trace. Already tried the latter-didn't like. The WT has a good reputation, but I think there's an 8yr old 101 and a regular 101. If so, we got the regular one. I'm not impressed with regular WT and if the 101 is just more concentrated, I wouldn't be interested.

Regards
Frodo

by **bamber** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:14 am

Hi Frodo,

I've not had WT 101, but I have had *quite a bit* of the WT 101 8YO, which I believe is a similar flavour profile and I consider it a much superior drink to WT 80, which is a very average whisky IMHO.

WT 8YO is one of my regular whiskies, wheras I've had a bottle of WT 80 collecting dust for over a year now.

Don't know if WT 101 is the same as WT 80, but concentrated, but considering the vast differences between Laphroaig 10YO and Laphroaig 10YO CS and Macallan 10YO and Macallan 10YO CS, I would guess they are probably very different.

As you can imagine the though of adding water to WT 101 8YO has never even crossed my mind !

by **Laphroaig** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:17 pm

I believe the majority of WT presentations are bottled at 101º. That seems to be their signature proof.

I´m sorry to hear about your limited access probem.

by **Frodo** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:07 pm

Laphroig:

My limited access problem is balanced by the fact that the LCBO (as the world's biggest retailer) can get some pretty decent deals. Examples of this are; Highland Park 12yr (OB) at $50 cdn ($35 US) or Laphroig 10yr (OB) at the same price. On balance, I feel well served. But when I want a bottle of Littlemill, or Dallas Dhu and can't get one, I do feel the pain

.

Bamber:

I realize you like overstrength hooch. Bye the bye, I once tried Bookers without water. I swear my kidneys started to bleed when I took my first smell :shock:

. If you can ENJOY this stuff, all I can say is... MUCH respect :!:

.

I think I'll stay in the kiddie pool for now :oops:

.

Respect
Frodo

by **Frodo** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:58 am

I absolutly take back anything bad that I said before regarding Buffalo Trace bourbon. I tried a bad bottle a while ago that tasted "rough". I tried it again due to feedback from posters on this website singing it's praises. It is great whisky, and I would like to thank all those who posted a differant opinion than my origional one. {Frodo doffs his cap and does a respectful half-bow}.

I also got to speak with Harlen Wheatley, distillery manager for Buffalo Trace. He clearly knows his stuff, without being pretentious. His mater class was done in tandem with a salesman from the distillery, and I wittnessed some of the "friendly ribbing" that I hear happens between the sales, and spirit-making camps.

I also found out that Buffalo Trace also makes my favourite bourbon, Blantons. I am really impressed with the product line (and price points) of this distillery.

With Grattitude
Frodo

by **hpulley** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:23 pm

Tried a bunch of Buffalo Trace offerings at a show this weekend. Nice stuff, better than Canadian grain whisky I think but overall still not my favorite. I'll take scotch. Just my tastes, everyone's will vary of course. The Elmer T Lee single barrel was my favorite with the wheat bourbon second.

Harry

by **Frodo** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:11 pm

For me, It's a price for quality analysis. I can get very nice, very wonderful bourbons and Irish whiskies at $40 cdn. Examples are Elmer T Lee, Buffallo Trace, Maker's Mark (?) Black Bush, Jameson 12, and Redbrest. Scotches at the same price point do not inspire confidence. Examples are Balantines 12yr, Grants 15yr, 'fiddich 12yr, Chivas Regal etc.. JW black and Glenlivit are good scotches, but for some reason just doesn't do it for me. At $45cdn I can start to look foreward to Glenmorangie, or Dun Bheagan 8yr Islay which I do like.

Frodo

by **Frodo** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:13 pm

BTW trying Eagle Rare at the tasting show gave me cause to reconsider my earlier post. It will be at vintages for $60 in a while, and if I have the money, I will definatly go get a bottle.

Frodo

by **matthew0715** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:14 pm

Regarding value bourbons: I love the Elijah Craig 12yo, currently only $14 in Pennsylvania liquor stores this month. I used to like Makers Mark, but I've drifted to other brands. Actually I like to try a different brand every time I buy a bottle. I'm drinking Evan Williams 1994 vintage single barrel , which I'd also recommend in the $20-25 range. I also have some EC 18yo, which is good, but not worth $31.
I guess being in the US, even the priciest bourbons are much less expensive than comparable Scotches.

Matt

by **Admiral** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:37 pm

Actually, I don't think you need to be in the US to enjoy cheaper bourbon prices.

At the higher end of the quality scale, the more expensive scotches are in the 15-21 year age range, and their price reflects this accordingly.

But because bourbon matures so much more quickly, the comparable bourbons are in the 7-14 year age range, so it follows that they're always going to be cheaper.

Elijah Craig 12yo is the best bourbon I've ever tried (please bear in mind that we don't get much of a selection here in Australia! :wink:

) but it retails for around $38. In comparison, Glenfiddich 12yo retails for $53!!! So a top-of-the-line bourbon is still markedly cheaper than a bottom-of-the-line single malt!

Cheers,
Admiral

View topic - Bourbon vs. Scotch

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