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The smell of Peat

Your tastes and our tastes are discussed here, so make sure you share your pleasures with us.

Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Reggaeblues » Fri May 30, 2008 5:11 pm

I repeat...

when I first nosed/tasted Lagavulin 16, IT DID NOT TASTE LIKE WHISKY!!

Which is why, many years and drams later, I find meself on this forum.

JG, here's a little statement I concocted a while back. Rip it to shreds or admire it, I don't care - and yes, your views and right to them are as valid as anyone's!

"If music is art for your ears, painting art for your eyes, and poetry art for your brain, then whisky is art for your toungue..."

Go on! "Have a go at that" as Steve Irwin used to say...
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby I_SPEY » Fri May 30, 2008 5:13 pm

Muskrat Portage wrote:There is no debate about the flavours some people detect and other people cannot due to gradiations of personal anosmia. Certain chemicals when combined create flavours and odours that really aren't there, at the molecular level. Read Pip Hillis' book on Appreciating Whisky to see a scholarly explanation.

Granted some of the tasting notes appear outlandish or stretching the point at first, until you realise that the person is grasping for an explanation based on their own taste memories. The production process of different whiskies wil create variants on the original product. Length of time in the mash tun; size, dimensions, heat source, reflux in the stills; cut; wood type used for aging, length of time aging; previous useage of casks; all combine to result in an individual flavour profile for each whisky created.

There is a similar variance in the lowly olive. Each manufacturer (in for example Portugal) has a specific recipe they follow for their product. When you taste them this variance leaps out, in some cases. You find the olives dry or salty or more robust in flavour, depending on your personal taste preferences. Whisky is the same in that you will find certain chemical interplays will develop into a dram you really enjoy or perhaps are indifferent to.

Whether you choose to attempt to name what you taste based on your personal life experiences or just sit back and enjoy the dram for what it is, a fine product developed by the combined talents of the mashman, stillman and master distillers', the choice is yours. There is no wrong way to enjoy whisky (whiskey) and I would feel privileged if I could just sit with anyone who posits on this forum and enjoy a dram together.

Muskrat Portage



To acquire knowledge, one must study; but to acquire wisdom, one must observe.


You are a wise Muskrat 8)
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby oldrip57 » Fri May 30, 2008 11:41 pm

JG, I understand what you're stating, both implicitly and explicitly, and maybe even agree with it at an existential level.
But, then, food is a basis of life, while whisk(e)y is a luxury item. What the heck good is a luxury item that's treated like the commodity of food?! When whiskey becomes as routine as lunch, I will be either a drunkard, or an abstainer!
Thus when I enjoy a pour of Ten High or Dallas Dhu 24yo, unfiltered, I will appreciate and try to describe (if only to myself) why it is that I paid more than lunch prices for it.
I can't help but think you're denying yourself some elevated enjoyment of your whiskey hobby if all your tastings end in nothing more than "I like it" or "I don't like it".
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby I_SPEY » Sat May 31, 2008 12:38 pm

oldrip57 wrote:JG, I understand what you're stating, both implicitly and explicitly, and maybe even agree with it at an existential level.
But, then, food is a basis of life, while whisk(e)y is a luxury item. What the heck good is a luxury item that's treated like the commodity of food?! When whiskey becomes as routine as lunch, I will be either a drunkard, or an abstainer!
Thus when I enjoy a pour of Ten High or Dallas Dhu 24yo, unfiltered, I will appreciate and try to describe (if only to myself) why it is that I paid more than lunch prices for it.
I can't help but think you're denying yourself some elevated enjoyment of your whiskey hobby if all your tastings end in nothing more than "I like it" or "I don't like it".


I fully agree, oldrip57 8)
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby JohnyyGuitar » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:06 am

Hey guys, let me clarify a few points that I think a few people didn't quite get from my previous post.

When I say "whiskey taste like whiskey" I do not mean that they all taste the same, they certainly don't, any fool knows that, and only an arrogant fool would suggest that someone else is so stupid as to think that way or state so.
As such I am not diminishing their tastes or trying to make it as common as bubble gum, quite to the contrary. I think saying they (scotch) taste like appricots or cookie batter is an insult and a bit belittling to them, imagine if you spent time to produce a fine fish dinner and then the partakers said "it taste like chicken, I'm getting hints of appricots"..............As the cheif I'd be pissed.
Each scotch is unique and it tastes like what it is, it has it own personality, don't slight it with silly notions of appricots, respect it for what it is and what it taste like, that is it's magic, not the fact that it taste like something else. Just because some blow =hard has a book to sell and describes it as such doesn't mean you have to buy into that sillyness.
Enjoy it, as all things in life for just what they are, that is the variety in life, recognizing things for their individual worth.
Just because you are overly paying for it doesn't mean you have to justify it with lengthy flowerery complicated pretentious descriptions.
Simple as that :)

But to reiterate - you do whatever you want with your scotch, rub it on your groin if that makes you happy. To each his own. But I find life much more challenging and interesting to meeting things on their own terms for what they are, not some phoney self dillusion; that whole "if you think it, well it must be true" way of thinking spawned back in the 60s with LSD and smoking dope. I'm still laughing at those types of people and this whole imagining scotch taste like 'appricots' reminds of that whole air-head movement and way of thinking generation.
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Ras Mazunga » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:48 pm

So much text, so many times, so unconvincing.
:sleep:
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Reggaeblues » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:59 pm

What is it with JG and appricotts? Are they good for constipation or something?

I have never found any in MY whisky. But I sho' 'nuff have found hints of lemons, oranges, pineapple, apple, banana, redcurrant, cranberry, white grape, red grape, and a whole fruit salad. but no damned appricotts!

You know, i don't think the whisky crafters would be insulted by our finding such flavours in our drams. On the contrary!

This argument "if i want to eat appricotts I'll eat appricotts not whisky" is getting silly! :headbang: Of course that;'s true! but the whole fun for me, and as far as i can see most everybody who partakes of the water of life, is being SURPRISED by what one DOES find! and even a whisky I know well is never quite the same twice, which means that whisky is up there with sex, race-car driving, and all good things that involve the unexpected...and the anticipation that goes with it!

I was speaking to the marketting manager of Highland Park not so long ago, about the Oddbins special they released a few months back. He described it, rather accurately I felt, as "meaty."

With an 'M', not a 'P'!!!

Well, i'm a vegetarian, but I still loved that dram.

And i never found any lumps of beef or mutton in it... :yuk:
Last edited by Reggaeblues on Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Calliope » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:03 pm

JohnyyGuitar wrote: Serioulsy though, I am trying to make a simple straight foward point, when you sit down to eat your dinner, do you imagine everything else that it tastes like ? If scotch was 1/10 the price, would you be scrutinizing it so ? ... It's just whiskey and it just tastes like whiskey,

But people do talk about foodstuffs in this way, particularly about foods they have a special interest in. Apples, for instance. Look here: http://www.orangepippin.com/varietyindex.aspx You will find the flavour of apples described as nutty, or sugary, or almondy. Also, of course, they taste like apples. You could easily find the same sort of information about potatoes or tomatoes. When people are interested in something, they build up a vocabulary to describe it, so it can be discussed. I'm pretty new here but it does seem strange to find a post that seems to criticise the discussion of whisky, on a whisky discussion forum.
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Reggaeblues » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:09 pm

Calliope wrote:
JohnyyGuitar wrote: Serioulsy though, I am trying to make a simple straight foward point, when you sit down to eat your dinner, do you imagine everything else that it tastes like ? If scotch was 1/10 the price, would you be scrutinizing it so ? ... It's just whiskey and it just tastes like whiskey,

But people do talk about foodstuffs in this way, particularly about foods they have a special interest in. Apples, for instance. Look here: http://www.orangepippin.com/varietyindex.aspx You will find the flavour of apples described as nutty, or sugary, or almondy. Also, of course, they taste like apples. You could easily find the same sort of information about potatoes or tomatoes. When people are interested in something, they build up a vocabulary to describe it, so it can be discussed. I'm pretty new here but it does seem strange to find a post that seems to criticise the discussion of whisky, on a whisky discussion forum.


Abso-bloody-lutely Calliope!! Well said!

"You say to-mah-to, I say to-may-to...You say pot-ah-to...I say po-tay-to."
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Ganga » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:19 pm

Reggaeblues wrote:"You say to-mah-to, I say to-may-to...You say pot-ah-to...I say po-tay-to."


Let's call the whole thing off. :wink:

Calliope, you are quite right. One who is interested must build up a lexicon/vocabulary of smells and tastes without which it is very difficult to have a discussion. I have found that each of us has our own "dictionary" based on our experiences, the variety of which is like the language we speak. Terms are different from place to place but there is enough overlap to allow people to converse. Thank you for the wondersful observation.
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby JohnyyGuitar » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:00 am

But people do talk about foodstuffs in this way, particularly about foods they have a special interest in.


People will say anything to sell their product. Aside from scotch I am involved in a few other passionate life long endeavors, and I must say they all take on this irrresistable urge to blowviate to the point of sillyness. For one, I own some very old and fine instruments, and I greatly appreciate their merits and understand their limits, qualities and beauty, love them and wouldn't part with them for the world...but to hear others pour on the acolades of such instruments as if they were created by the very hands of god and the instruments but for a small chance of fate could actually play themselves.....well it's all quite a bit silly, I feel that people like to talk as such because they feel it elevates their standing or sells product, and most often these are the amateur types trying to impress.............. Hey I have to admit I once bought into to all the BS myself..........As such I see the same thing going on once again, but this time with "scotch tasting".............to but it bluntly......"Give me a break" :)

Once again just because I make fun of the blowviators doesn't mean I am slighting the merits of the object that is the target of the discussion - scotch in this case...
Oh and by the way I've been using the "appricot" term because someone had previously used it in their bloviated disertation, I thought it funny and took a liking to it.
And that guy that used the term "meaty" to discribe his new brand of scotch should be fired if that is the best term he can come up with........"meatly" what is that suppose to mean ? is that pork or beef, steak or sausage ? If your scotch tastes like something say what it tastes like, don't try and con me with falacious terms and try to take me for some chump.
I don't mind using, and actually find it helpfull to use words such as 'bell like' to desrcibe the sound of an instrument, say for example, but really when you start saying stuff live 'meaty' to describe scotch - "Give me a break" if you don't have any more imagination than that, find a new line of work.
And now I think I'll have a wee dram and retire :smoke:
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby lohssanami » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:20 am

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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby mikeymad » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:52 am

Wow.... that is good lohssanami ......

Cheers,
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby lohssanami » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:56 am

:P
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:58 pm

Excellent Tim ....

:lol:

:thumbsup:
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby JohnyyGuitar » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:14 am

Wow that is hilarious - but could you explain it to the rest of the folks, I don't think they get it. I don't think you do either. :lol:
Did you go to school for comedy or is that something you tried to pickup on your own ?
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby oldrip57 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:48 am

JohnyyGuitar wrote:...could you explain it to the rest of the folks, I don't think they get it. I don't think you do either. :lol:...

Or, perchance, (ahem!) you don't. It's a wonderful innocence that never considers the possibility that oneself is wrong, but nonetheless comes across outwardly as arrogance...
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby lohssanami » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:22 am

JohnyyGuitar wrote:Wow that is hilarious - but could you explain it to the rest of the folks, I don't think they get it. I don't think you do either. :lol:
Did you go to school for comedy or is that something you tried to pickup on your own ?


Enough said...

:P
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Newbie » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:45 am

I am sure JG will be happy to hear this. Recently I had the chance to smell peat and taste malt and guess what? They both reminded me of whisky!

Hold on a minute! Peat should smell like peat and malt should taste like malt! What was my point again?

Just out of curiosity how would you describe a whisky JG? How would you describe JWR and Lagavulin to me?
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Reggaeblues » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:52 pm

Johnny Guitar wrote:

"And that guy that used the term "meaty" to discribe his new brand of scotch should be fired if that is the best term he can come up with........"meatly" what is that suppose to mean ?(YES! WHAT IS "MEATLY" SUPPOSED TO MEAN? NICE WORD, THOUGH!) is that pork or beef, steak or sausage ? If your scotch tastes like something say what it tastes like, don't try and con me with falacious terms and try to take me for some chump.
I don't mind using, and actually find it helpfull to use words such as 'bell like' to desrcibe the sound of an instrument, say for example, but really when you start saying stuff live 'meaty' to describe scotch - "Give me a break" if you don't have any more imagination than that, find a new line of work And now I think I'll have a wee dram and retire"

:D :D :D Good idea JG!!

I must say one cannot fault your logic - it is perfect in its inconsistency! I mean, it's a sin to describe a whisky as "appricott-like", but it's ok to describe the sound of an instrument as "bell-like". i understand, totally...not! (Actually, i used the term "bell-like" myself back in those awful drug-addled sixties to describe the tone of Peter Green's guitar with lots of reverb...but what do I know? Must've been the mescalin, right? I mean, his guitar didn't actually have bells on it.)

FYI "meaty" is a generic term here in the UK used to describe something that has "body" or "substance" or "fatness" (which I felt was an appropriate term for this particular whisky)as in: "the guy in Def Leppard has a very "meaty" guitar tone. "Doesn't mean his guitar strings are made of sausages, nor that he uses a piece of steak for a plectrum, or bolts a guitar neck onto a pig's carcass.


As you say, "If your scotch tastes like something say what it tastes like."

Glad we're in agreement then!
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby les taylor » Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:07 pm

RB I do admire your resoluteness. Even though it won't make a jot of difference.
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Reggaeblues » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:50 pm

Just having fun, Les!

About to open something I've never tried...a Longrow. The CV.

Great excitement...and probably smells of peat!!

(Funny, I initially typed "smells of prat" by accident!!)
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby JohnyyGuitar » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:17 pm

newbie wrote:
Just out of curiosity how would you describe a whisky JG? How would you describe JWR and Lagavulin to me?

I wouldn't, I'd just give you a glass of it. But if I must.....JWR is a blend, if you are familiar with blended scotch JWR is in that generic style, and taste 'young' as far as scotch goes. JWR is sweet verses its drier brother JW-Black.
Now Lagavulin, ranges is taste depending how old it is, it taste like an Islay whiskey, similar to Laphroaig. If you like Coal Ila, Bowmore, is your style you'll find them similar, on the other end of the taste spectrum are Highlands, etc....

Hey, Reggieblues, my fine feathered friend, to address a point you made, with reference to my 'bell like' remark....did you notice that I used some adjectives there above.......I NEVER said I was against using terms to descibe scotch as long as they are simple and to the point and actually convey some meaning - "taste like appricots to me" conveys nothing. For musical instruments lots of specific words express lots of things clearly and to the point - "warm", "Bright", and "out of tune" or "tone deaf", two terms that really have no use anymore in todays music.
I have no grip with describing scotch or anything, but I find this whole recent phenomena in scotch tasting to be just a lot of people blowing a lot of hot air...and yea just like the music business, alot of blow hards that can't tune an insturment and the critics raving about it and the sheeple falling in lock step. Critics are blowhards by the very nature of their profession. The more hot air they blow the more work they get.
To me when I read a modern day scotch or music review it just reeks of bs....phoney and says nothing, just a lot of cute and 'cool' sounding meaningless words.
You wanna say Coal Ila is a dry and peaty whiskey and even ad an adjective or two.......fine by me. But I find those scotch reviews are laughable not to mention completely disingenuous, and I find it silly that people buy in to that crap and then try to talk like that and start looking to find all those supposed flavors, the masses are easily manipulated - wouldn't you agree.....so pay your money, drink your scotch, enjoy it for what it is and leave it at that. Blowhards have always erked me and they seem to be everwhere in this day and age :P
Last edited by JohnyyGuitar on Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Reggaeblues » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:19 pm

C57, I still stand by my claim(and others) that there's nobody on this forum I wouldn't enjoy sitting down and dramming with...including our friend JG.

Maybe Les is right - he's just lonely! Maybe he'll have a go at us for being psychoanalysts!!

but I still read his posts assuming he has his discerning toungue stuck firmly in his cheek! Greetings JG!

...and BTW i just opened my bottle of Longrow CV...my first Longrow. I was in town yesterday, and saw masses of the Renaissance on sale. Also, my friend aKeith at the Vintage House gave me a generous portion of a delisious Laddie 15YO , 300 bottles only, rum finished@ 50+% ABV...but 50 quid! I don;t have a lot of dough, so reasoning that I love Ardbeg, and have 2 on the go, a 10 and an AT, plumped for the unknown...the legendary Longrow, at £29.

For me, the Ardbeg 10 and Talisker 10 has a challenger! The A10 probably hs a better finish...but this is still gret.

Best new whisky i've tried in yonks!

Oh, JG, this has a wonderful warm, toasty, peaty, citrussy, white chocolate nose that leaps out of the glass(no, not literally JG! No noses, beaky, jewish or otherwise are jumping put of my tapered Glenmorangie beaker) and the overall experience is of SWEET PEAT...Plus, a rerun of the nose on the palate...and a nice oiliness that a good Caol Ila would be proud of...

Possibly the best thing i've tasted out of springbank...and I've totally enjoyed he 10y0 OB the 10yo CS OB, the 1997, the "Argyll malt" 8 YO Hazelbank(CS OMC version from the vintage House...AND the 21!! (JG would probably agree that part of the charisma of the 21 is that it's no longer available! )

Longrow CV = Highly recommended, for enthusiasts and pedants alike!

God bless, have a wonderful weekend.
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Reggaeblues » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:23 pm

JG, maybe you've bin misinterpreted to some extent...I have to agree with your last point.

I must admit to sometimes wonderring "what are they on?" when I read some "official" tasting notes/reviews. But I enjoy finding folks with similar taste, and impressions, and I value that. the rest makes me laugh, I admit.

But don't let it blind you to what we DO have in common...we're just comparing notes here, at the end of the day, and that can be both fun and educational.
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Muskrat Portage » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:27 pm

Collector57 wrote:LOL@Tim!

My mate Pete, always smells of Lynx deodorant to me...
I've never used lynx deodorant. Oh you meant another Peat!

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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby JohnyyGuitar » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:32 pm

Reggieblues - I must say you have quite an active imagination, to bad you don't but it to better use :D
I like you description - if I might critiqe it though, 'warm' expresses nothing in terms of flavor, "peaty", "sweet" yes...and the 'chocolate' that is purely a figment of your imagination. and holds no place in any honest endeavor to rely a idea...my advice....stick to the facts, son :lol:
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby JohnyyGuitar » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:37 pm

reggieblues wrote:
But don't let it blind you to what we DO have in common...we're just comparing notes here, at the end of the day, and that can be both fun and educational.


I think we've all have seemed to have forgetten the most salient point of scotch - To Get Loaded :D

And I'm sure that I would enjoy share a dram or two or three or four, well even five with all the bloats and blowhards on this forum :D
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Muskrat Portage » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:40 pm

Collector57 wrote:
Muskrat Portage wrote:
Collector57 wrote:LOL@Tim!

My mate Pete, always smells of Lynx deodorant to me...
I've never used lynx deodorant. Oh you meant another Peat!

Musky

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No I meant you Musky - the old musky big cat aroma! :p


:D :D :D :D :D
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby JohnyyGuitar » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:46 pm

All this talk has gotten me thirsty - so I'm off like a used condom to the liquor store - not sure what will strike my fancy when I get there. I might buy something cheap or blow my wad.....

But I'm in the mood for something cherry, choclate, licorice, smoky, rubbery, maybe a hint of dried cactus, or pigeon wings baked in chinesse ant sause, but I want some fredricks of hollywood on the nose. but with a finish of 10-40 Quacker State motorcar oil, mind you the 5-30 is dreadfull - can some one suggest something along those lines ?
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Ras Mazunga » Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:06 am

I would suggest a Johnie Walker Red. This fits just right in your description except for the chinese ant saus. If I am not mistaken Chinese don't make ant saus, they fry them. Mexicans do make ant saus which is creamy and smells like cashewnuts. Many other etnic groups of people eat ants but uncooked.
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Reggaeblues » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:39 am

JG - please refrain from patronising me. If a whisky reminds me of chocolate, that is just as real to me as your "critique".

...and by the way, before you accuse ME of having "quite an active imagination", I am NOT your son, Daddy-O! :evil:
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Reggaeblues » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:52 am

PS. JG, If i want to get loaded, tequila is far more effective. And vodka far cheaper.

speak for yourself (as you always do) but don't assume everyone else shares and inhabits your particular level of sensorial elegance, or eloquence.

I drink SMScotches because I love how they taste, and enjoy exploring new flavour combinations. I do not find such engrossing complexity in anything else that passes my lips, be it breakfast, lunch, dinner, hot chocolate, cabernet sauvignon , or apple pie and ice cream.

All of which I enjoy.

"Getting loaded" is an occasional, welcome by-product of whisky drinking...but no more the reason why I open a bottle than why I crack a bar of excellent chocolate, or select a favourite CD to listen to.

Each to his own.
Reggaeblues
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby Doug1937 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:18 am

JG, I think you can rest, assured even, that no one on this forum believes that the scotch they drink is apricot-flavored, lemon-flavored, or anything else. For that matter, the last thing anyone would want to drink is chicken-flavored whisky.

But if other drinkers find hints of various flavors in their scotches while at the same time you do not...did you ever stop to consider that your tongue and nose might be...handicapped?

:wink:
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Doug1937
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Re: The smell of Peat

Postby lohssanami » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:24 am

Doug1937 wrote:JG...if other drinkers find hints of various flavors in their scotches while at the same time you do not...did you ever stop to consider that your tongue and nose might be...handicapped?

:wink:


:thumbsup:
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lohssanami
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