Not a member? - Register and login now.
All registered users can read our entire magazine archive.

Extremely Rare Buchanans House of Commons Malt

Do you have a 50 year old vintage waiting to be discovered by a worthy collector? Post your details here and find out!
Forum rules
Please note items can not be offered for sale on this forum.

Extremely Rare Buchanans House of Commons Malt

Postby dustydot » Thu May 11, 2006 6:49 pm

Serious Collectors of old and unusual whiskies may be interested in a recent listing on Ebay (Item No. 6278536735).
A bottle salvaged from a ship which was wrecked in 1898 off the Galloway Coast. The bottle is unopened, still sealed with original lead capsule and in very good condition.[/b]
dustydot
New member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: SW Scotland

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Sun May 14, 2006 12:48 pm

The owner made a serious mistake here imho. He has made a copy of the original label and replaced it. If I was a collector I'd be seriously concerned about this sort of tampering.
User avatar
irishwhiskeychaser
Cask Strength Gold Member
 
Posts: 3644
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:27 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

Postby dustydot » Sun May 14, 2006 1:31 pm

Irishwhiskeychaser has obviously not read the description of the item, the key words are "recovered from a shipwreck". To have a bottle survive after almost 100 years submerged is not enough he wants the label to survive as well!
dustydot
New member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: SW Scotland

Postby Deactivated Member » Sun May 14, 2006 4:10 pm

I think the concern, dustydot, is that collectible items should never be "restored"; generally it reduces their value. If they are damaged, so be it. An accompanying plaque with the replica label would perhaps be more appropriate.

(I say this not having looked at the item and taking the the posters at their word for the descriptions.)
Deactivated Member
 

Postby Lawrence » Sun May 14, 2006 4:26 pm

Dustydot, did you open one of the bottles and taste the whisky?
Lawrence
Matured cask
 
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 1:01 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Postby dustydot » Sun May 14, 2006 4:36 pm

Bottles of the whisky have been opened and tested by Customs giving a strength of in excess of 80 proof. As for the taste, the bottles that have been opened have been excellent but I cannot vouch for the unopened ones.
One further comment in respect of the label, I do not think sticking a copy label to the bottle affects it in anyway as it can easily be removed if it offends, it was purely for information.
Last edited by dustydot on Sun May 14, 2006 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dustydot
New member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: SW Scotland

Postby Deactivated Member » Sun May 14, 2006 4:45 pm

So noted--if no remnant label covered over, then no big deal, I guess. As I said, I haven't looked at it, and was speaking in general terms, relating to iwc's concern.

Presume you mean 80 proof?
Deactivated Member
 

Postby Deactivated Member » Sun May 14, 2006 8:55 pm

I am watching this one on Ebay out of interest, but it isn't something that I think I would bid on.

WH
Deactivated Member
 

Postby dustydot » Sun May 14, 2006 9:08 pm

Why not, you will never get another chance and it can only increase in value as it is a one of.
dustydot
New member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: SW Scotland

Postby corbuso » Mon May 15, 2006 9:56 am

dustydot wrote:Why not, you will never get another chance and it can only increase in value as it is a one of.


Like Whiskyhammer, I would not bid more than a few pounds. The bottle is "too clean" and without its original label. It is too close from a fake bottle (even if might be a real one) and no serious collector would buy it either, unless you have the content being certified by analysis. Putting a new label on top of it does only raise suspicion and decreases its value

Corbuso

---------------
http://www.whisky-news.com
corbuso
Gold Member
 
Posts: 878
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:56 am

Postby Deactivated Member » Mon May 15, 2006 11:27 am

Thank you Corbuso, you very clearly put my own thoughts into words.

WH
Deactivated Member
 

Postby dustydot » Mon May 15, 2006 12:31 pm

Corbuso is entitled to his opinion but as the salvor of this whisky spending many hours underwater carefully excavating these bottles, (one or two of them still surviving in their original cases). I take offence at the suggestion it is fake.
I salvaged it declared it to HM Customs & Excise who tested it (obviously not all the bottles). BBC TV made a program about it and filmed the original auction at Christie's. The origin and provenance has never been disputed so no wonder I take offence at someone who has no idea what he is talking about.
If he has no intention of bidding why make, what is bordering on a libellous statement[/b]
dustydot
New member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: SW Scotland

Postby Deactivated Member » Mon May 15, 2006 1:29 pm

Dustydot

I think the issue is how to prove the provenance of the whisky. There are a lot of fakes out there - especially on ebay - and it can be quite difficult to spot them. Often it is a case of balancing the evidence for and against a bottle and, I'm afraid, appearing trustworthy is not always enough. After all, both genuine traders and complete conmen can appear quite plausible.

If you have a video of the BBC documentary featuring yourself raising the bottles and if you also have a photo of yourself next to the bottles you are selling, that would add to the evidence in favour of the bottles. Statements from HMCR and auction houses would also help. But they will never be conclusive.

I hope the bottles are genuine and that you get a price you are happy with, but I hope you will also understand that people may be wary and that their wariness is nothing personal. I suspect that people who sell things need to be quite thick skinned on occasion.
Deactivated Member
 

Postby dustydot » Mon May 15, 2006 3:02 pm

I do take on board what has been posted and I agree there are always going to be people who doubt the authenticity of this item,
That is why I have included a copy of my book (which is the result of 20 years research) with the full story of the wreck including photos of me with the salvaged bottles and HM Customs testing the contents, plus copies of all Customs documentation. I can even throw in a copy of Christie's catalogue.
The first bottles sold at auction were purchased by the relevant whisky companies without any hesitation.
Finally the reason I am selling is one day I looked at the bottle and decided I had a choice open it and drink it or make it available to a serious collector. As I have tasted examples of all the whiskies recovered (and found them excellent) I decided to sell.
dustydot
New member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: SW Scotland

Postby Deactivated Member » Mon May 15, 2006 4:17 pm

DustyDot,
please do not think that I am accusing you of selling a fake.
I am only saying what man other people MAY be thinking.

What surprises me here is that you have already sold one at Christies for an excellent price, completely authenticated. Therefore, why not sell this one through the same venue?
As has been said, Ebay is rather anonymous and has a reputation for 'iffy' bottles from less than genuine sellers. Now, I think that you are genuine in everything you say, but quite honestly and in my opinion, Ebay is not the best platform for these lesser known and more expensive / exclusive bottles.

My advice would be to speak with someone like Martin Green at McTears and have it included in his next auction.

Regards,
WH
Deactivated Member
 

Postby dustydot » Mon May 15, 2006 4:30 pm

Whiskyhammer

It was 1991 the first auction took place and suprisingly it was a Martin Green that handled it.
I put this bottle on Ebay in an attempt to attract worldwide attention, it of course remains to be seen if it actually reaches the reserve. Therefore I still have the bottle and all I have lost is the listing fee, but I may have been successful in my efforts to draw attention to its existance.
dustydot
New member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: SW Scotland

Return to Collector's Corner

cron

Whisky gift and present finder