If you all allow me to explain. And allow your self some time to read this toppic.
The fact that I know a lot of things and won't publish is because I'm still waiting for some evidence, but I believe a mans word if he says that R.Kemp could have possible owned 2 distilleries at the same time. And therefor I have made some conclusions (that was also stated by Lawrence, not so long ago), that there was a overlap time period of approximatly 6 months, that R.Kemp could have possibly owned 2 distilleries at the same time, while he was generating money by selling the Talisker distillery and buy the Macallan-Glenlivet distillery. On paper he sold the Talisker distillery and bought the Macallan distillery, wich means that R. Kemp was on paper owner of both distilleries. But that was just the paper work. It was never registered by Companies House and why you might ask? Well Companies House never registered any partnerships at that time, while the Talisker distillery was a partnership. Then again I'm still waiting for some evidence from the Macallan (old records, or other)
This is how I look against the R.Kemp story, and it's up to you what you do with it.
Lex, I spoke to David Cox, and he assure me that a sample was send to the laboratory to asses what they are dealing with. But we have to wait(I'm waiting too for the results) until September. And as soon as something comes out of these test, I will publish them here.
David deliberate not writing anything at all about R.Kemp so I was told by David him self. In his opinion, it's like you believe this story or not. And the Macallan is happy to answer any questions from you(wich I believe there still are some), but then again if people here on this forum don't take any trouble at all to contact the Macallan, while that's not my problem or neither David's problem.
To come back to the bottle and paper issue. Peter Bower and Simon Cottle have written a report to the Macallan. However it will not be published, and that's the end of it. But if some of you are in the neighbourhood of Perth and taking the trouble to visit the HQ of Highland Distillers there, then David will show to you those reports in person, because that's what he told me.
I asked David also three questions and he will answer then as soon as he gets back. David is now out of the office for almost two weeks. As soons as they are answered by David I will publish them here too, and I won't rush David. I have an agreement with David that everythig he tells me I can publish it here freely.
I also spoke to David about the auction and its buyers if they are fully aware about what's going on here on this forum, he said that some of them are not aware about this discussion. And I asked him if that was any trouble at all, no he said because he assured me that every old bottle of Macallan or any other bottle of Macallan is genuine. He couldn't say that the bottle that Dave Broome has used was a fake or not, simply because he has never seen it or had the chance to examine it.
Call all of this a Red Herring or a Harry Potter tale or a fable, I don't care less.
All I can say is, that if some of you here took any trouble at all to contact the Macallan or The Whisky Magazine (to sort things out for you), you probably knew just as much as I do right now at this point. And all I did was trying to tell you how things are related to one another. I have said that all your questions will be answered, well I'm sorry if it never did happend and I must say that after I have red the article I had to admit that I was to early about saying that all the question where being answered (In a way they did, but the only thing is you have to do something for it and that's for some of us very difficult do here), because I was trying to get somethings done here and to be honest to you if you only took any trouble at all to find something out it would have showed how concerned you where about the Macallan and their behaviour. And this discussion wasn't even necessary at all, all we had to talk about then was comparing any data or information to share here. So far I'm the only consumer and forum reader (and from time to time a Macallan representative) here, who is concerend about an article wich says that the Macallan showed in that article was a fake. All I have seen here on this forum is that I and the Macallan are being critized, and no one here took any serious thougths about this. The fact that you critize me about a case I can't do anything about, well that's something I can't describe or have any words for that.
Rest me to say, I have done the best I could and perhaps I was a little to quickly about saying things here, but that was only because of information was requested here on this and I'm depending on others too. And if they decide to do otherwise, well there's nothing I can do about that. I have red David's article over and over again and in my eyes this is an open invitation to contact The Macallan to request more information or evidence, and to see the some other parts well like I said earlyer, if you are realy interested and happen to be in the neighbourhood(I'm not saying that you have to go there, and go over some trouble getting there) of Perth, well drop by and ask your questions in person (make sure you made an appointment first).
All I tryed to do is getting some information for you and me guys, and some solid and hard statements. And if I failed in your eyes well then I have failed in your eyes, don't even care about it. David has read some of the reactions here on this forum and said that I was doing well, but even I can do only then the best I can.
For those who are interested, here's the article for those who still have to wait for a copy of their Whisky Magazine, and you can read it in advance.
Erik (still smiling and perhaps even harder then the rest here and still enjoying a dram of The Macallan)
The Macallan : genuine old and rare whiskies.
In July, 2002, we decided to commission an investigation into the authenticity of the substantial collection of nineteenth century and early twentieth century Macallan bottles held in our archive at Easter Elchies. This collection has gradually been accumulated over many years and, whilst we had no particular cause for concern, we considered it prudent to invite two experts in the fields of glass and paper to give us a view on the validity of our collection given its potential value (£1M). This work was completed before the publication of Dave Broom’s article in issue 28, in which he called into question the provenance and authenticity of a number of very old scotch whisky bottles in general, and two examples of The Macallan (1872 and 1888) in particular, both of which he wrote were “Proven to be fakes”. By implication, this article called into question the veracity of much that passes for antique scotch whisky, and the true value thereof, in a market which has seen substantial rises in prices paid by collectors and connoisseurs over the years.
In replying on behalf of The Macallan to Dave Broom’s assertions, we seek to re-assure all interested parties that the nineteenth and early twentieth century Macallan bottles, currently held under our control at Easter Elchies, have been closely examined by two of the world’s leading experts in their respective fields to establish the authenticity of these bottles beyond all reasonable doubt.
We invited Simon Cottle, Head of European Ceramics and Glass at Sothebys, and Peter Bower, a forensic paper historian and paper analyst, and one of the world’s two foremost practitioners of this discipline, to come to Easter Elchies and examine the old Macallan bottles in our archive. They carried out their examinations in July and August, 2002. Their conclusions are as follows :
Simon Cottle : Simon inspected 95 bottles at the distillery, comprising our 19th and early 20th century archive. The following is extracted verbatim from his report :
“Of these bottles, I noted several varieties, the majority of which appear to have been made by Scottish bottle makers of the nineteenth century. 1848 and 1849 are of late 18th century manufacture. The colour of the glass varies from amber to olive green. This does not suggest a change of fashion or a different type of whisky but indicates the variety of colours available to all the whisky sellers in the 19th century. In conclusion, while the dates of the bottles may be ten to fifteen years later than the distillation date of the whisky on the label, it is my opinion that apart from the specific examples mentioned above, all the bottles are of genuine 19th century Scottish origin. The bottle styles are similar to known examples supplied to other distilleries in the second half of the 19th century”.
Peter Bower : “Acting on your instructions, the labels of 19th and 20th century whisky bottles were examined on 21st and 22nd August 2002, at the Macallan distillery at Easter Elchies, in order to determine if any details of the papers used were out of period for the purported dates of the whisky”. Peter then proceeded to give a detailed description of the label paper of each of the bottles. In conclusion he wrote, “There is nothing out of period for any of the papers used for any of these labels”.
Further to address some of the concerns expressed by Dave Broom, Peter Bower noted that the signs of scuffing and wear on the labels were not uniform but more random in nature. Signs of wear are not just on corners, but in portions within the body of the label, consistent with bottles being pushed together on shelves, in boxes etc We have noted that fill heights are also inconsistent across the range of bottles, indicative of varying rates of evaporation over many years. Furthermore, when some of the bottles have been opened, such as the 1841, 1851 and 1861, the corks have disintegrated, again indicative of great age.
While distillery records pre 1890 are patchy, the cask books clearly show from whom each order was received and to whom each cask was delivered, together with the number and type of cask. In turn, some of these casks could have been sold on, or bottled for others.
We are, therefore, confident that the 19th and early 20th century bottles in our collection at Easter Elchies are genuine. We would also be pleased to help any collectors who may hold very old bottles of The Macallan, and who may have concerns following Dave Broom’s article, to have their bottles examined for authenticity. Given the fragility of many of these bottles, it may only be practical for the collector concerned to hand-carry them to Scotland, but given their potential value, a potentially worthwhile exercise. If anyone wishes to follow this up, we suggest contacting The Macallan on our web-site (http://www.themacallan.com
), or sending an e-mail to the under-signed, email@example.com
. The Macallan is the pre-eminent single malt in the market for old and rare whiskies, and we fully recognise the importance of ensuring a responsible approach to determining the genuine origin & provenance of old whisky bottles, many of which are now commanding high prices at auction and in transactions between owners and potential purchasers.
Dave Broom has raised many common-sense issues and concerns. The market for old and rare whisky bottles is no different from any other market in valuable and collectable items. Vigilance on the part of the buyer is always paramount, as a rogue operator will always be tempted to take advantage and slip in a fake among the genuine bottles. The market for old and rare, antique single malts is still relatively small, and is unlikely, yet, to have attracted the attention of major fraudsters who will be more active in more lucrative and international markets such as fine wine, art and antique furniture. However, no matter how small, it is incumbent in all of us in this market, especially the distillery owners, to ensure that the old and rare whiskies in our possession are what they are supposed to be.
We are, therefore, satisfied that our priceless archive of antique bottles held by The Macallan are genuine. Finally, for those that are interested we are delighted to confirm that a selection of these bottles are on display in our visitor centre at the distillery.
Director, Fine & Rare Whiskies,
[This message has been edited by Huurman (edited 17 June 2003).]