Not a member? - Register and login now.
All registered users can read our entire magazine archive.

Rosebank 1906

Do you have a 50 year old vintage waiting to be discovered by a worthy collector? Post your details here and find out!
Forum rules
Please note items can not be offered for sale on this forum.

Rosebank 1906

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:32 pm

If you had this bottle (Ebay code 160081958762), why would you sell it on ebay? Couldn't you get more for it at a specialist auction?
Deactivated Member
 

Postby lambda » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:53 pm

Note that he's also selling a glen garioch 1891 and a lochindaal 1892. The bottles look genuine (not that I'm an expert..), but I'm not betting any money on it :)
lambda
Bronze Member
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:08 am
Location: Netherlands

Postby vitara7 » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:38 pm

had had the same bottles and more on last year, but ended them before the close of auction, i think either he just wants to see how much they could go for, or just to show of that he has these bottles....
vitara7
Double Gold Member
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:54 am
Location: central scotland

Postby Di Blasi » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:36 am

Perhaps a reputable auctioneer, McTears or something, is better for him to get serious collectors and the money he's looking for.
Di Blasi
Cask Strength Gold Member
 
Posts: 3741
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:16 pm
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:34 am

Pure fake if you ask me.... The Cap and label are too new looking for a Hunderd year old bottle. The bottle is pristine and even if he cleaned it thee should be some build up near the label edge or the cap edge.

Even the type looks like something from the home PC. Just a bit too perfect really.

Sorry ten foot barge pole comes to mind.
User avatar
irishwhiskeychaser
Cask Strength Gold Member
 
Posts: 3644
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:27 pm
Location: Galway, Ireland

Postby ardbug » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:38 am

It seems to smell fake to me,

The bottle are in very good condition for 100 years plus

All three have the same label egde ( the kind people use today the torn old edge) Did this exist then ?

I am not an expert but the font and printing seems way to advanced for the time for an obscure single malt.

Shoulder height is very high for the age on all bottles.

If I owned these bottles i would not use ebay to sell but a collection auction house where you would expect to sell for the correct amount, and also get more exposure to the people who would pay the correct amount.
People would also have more confidence in their purchase not being a fake.

He has not set a reserve, so what if nobody bids but 1 person ? Would you risk that on an such an obscure and expensive bottle ?

If they are fakes, is he trying to off load something he knows or suspects is fake ( a previous mistake purchase of his own).


cheers Ardbug
ardbug
New member
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:43 am
Location: Adelaide South Australia

Postby Aidan » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:59 am

How common was it to put the year of distillation on the bottle back then? And what are the chances of having a few bottles with this trait? It all seems very Italian.
Aidan
Cask Strength Gold Member
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Dublin

Postby corbuso » Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:09 am

And should there not be any mentions about the alcohol volume and the volume of the bottle?
The Lochindaal bottle bottle seems very very suspicious.

I would not be on any of them

Corbuso
corbuso
Gold Member
 
Posts: 878
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:56 am

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:25 am

As I read this discussion this morning I immediately remembered the previous dubious offerings from the same seller which were widely discussed by the Malt Maniacs.

I have just been back through that MM link and I have to say that my foremost feelings are "Fake".

I also agree wholeheartedly with Dave: "If it seems too good to be true - it probably is".

In addition, I hate auctions where the biddres' IDs are hidden!!!
MT
Deactivated Member
 

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:36 am

Two of the bottles say "20 u.p." on the label - does anyone know what that might mean?
Deactivated Member
 

Postby Aidan » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:04 am

I don't know - something "proof"?

While trying to find out, I found similar looking bottles at this website - http://www.barmetro.it/glenlivet.htm
Aidan
Cask Strength Gold Member
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Dublin

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:09 am

Aidan,
that Malt Maniac link earlier in the discussion talks about BarMetro and this seller in great detail.

I have bought an odd (well, not so odd as infrequent :D ) bottle from this seller in the past, but only more 'normal' ones and never had any problem. But I must add that I wouldn't go near these with a proverbial barge pole.
MT
Deactivated Member
 

Postby fishboy » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:50 am

20 u.p does indeed refer to the proof strength (20 under proof). So that as 100 proof is 57.15% alcohol, and 70 proof is 40% alcohol I'm guessing that 20 under proof (or 80 proof) would be about 45.7%.
fishboy
Silver Member
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:42 pm
Location: Angus, Scotland

Postby Aidan » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:59 pm

Malt-Teaser wrote:Aidan,
that Malt Maniac link earlier in the discussion talks about BarMetro and this seller in great detail.

I have bought an odd (well, not so odd as infrequent :D ) bottle from this seller in the past, but only more 'normal' ones and never had any problem. But I must add that I wouldn't go near these with a proverbial barge pole.
MT


I just read some of that now, Keith. I didn't realise yer man had some stuff already verified as being fake. I assume he got everything from the same source.
Aidan
Cask Strength Gold Member
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Dublin

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:16 pm

Aidan, it certainly looks that way.
I remember some time ago when this originally came to light, he did himself no favours in the way he answered questions about whether he hadn't suspected, or even known about them.

Kind of "á la Macallan" attitude.

I am now 'watching' those bottles on my Ebay account, but I shall not be tempted to bid.
MT
Deactivated Member
 

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:26 pm

I have tried to alert ebay to our concerns but it is a fiendishly difficult process - none of the pre-set options quite seems to summarize the situation, and you aren't allowed to deviate from their set script.

To report a fake, you have to be the winning bidder - you can't just tell them that a product is a fake or suspected of being a fake.
Deactivated Member
 

Postby martin grant » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:15 pm

Have just taken time to have a look through the other offerings this seller has available. He's also selling a 30 year old Talisker, bottled in 2006 at 51.9% abv, for £157.97. Can't seem to find a bottle like this on any other whisky specialist website. Have had a look at the usual sites, Royal Mile, Loch Fyne, The Whisky Exchange etc. Has anyone else heard of this bottling, or even tried it? Does seem to be a good price if this is a genuine bottle
martin grant
Gold Member
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: perthshire

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:32 pm

That bottling of Talisker did happen (I've just googled it). No idea whether it is genuine or not but I'd guess it probably is.
Deactivated Member
 

Postby vitara7 » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:48 pm

ive bought a couple of things from jacob in the past and they were fine, the ones he has on the now though, maybe hes just trying to get more traffic to his other auction by putting these on, i doubt very much whether he will let them finish, like the last time he'll cancell them before they end.
vitara7
Double Gold Member
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:54 am
Location: central scotland

Postby martin grant » Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:17 pm

I've marked these items to be watched in my ebay, purely because I'm nosy. Would be interesting to see how much they go for
martin grant
Gold Member
 
Posts: 652
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:34 pm
Location: perthshire

Postby vitara7 » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:52 pm

ive done the same as im nosey :P
vitara7
Double Gold Member
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:54 am
Location: central scotland

Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:58 am

So, these auctions ended yesterday evening and the seller did not end them early / withdraw them from sale.

The final prices were:
Rosebank 1906 €955
Glen Garioch 1891 €1,010
Lochindaal 1892 €1,311

Of course there's no way to know who bought these, as with many of this seller's auctions, the bidder IDs are hidden.
MT
Deactivated Member
 

Postby Lawrence » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:24 am

The poor fools....
Lawrence
Matured cask
 
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 1:01 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Postby les taylor » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:57 am

I know this is not the point for discussion but I think ebay's change of policy and hidding the bidders is a retrograde step. I like to see who is bidding and if a pattern develops on the bidding over many items.



:(
User avatar
les taylor
Cask Strength Gold Member
 
Posts: 4943
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:16 am
Location: Gunwalloe

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:12 am

Les, that change is ONLY in the UK and not in Germany. In this case the seller chose not to allow the bidder IDs to be seen.

MT
Deactivated Member
 

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:14 am

That's quite sensible. It stops people like us contacting the bidders to tell them we doubt the authenticity of the product. If I were selling fakes, I'd do the same.
Deactivated Member
 

Postby Lawrence » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:03 pm

Nick Brown wrote:That's quite sensible. It stops people like us contacting the bidders to tell them we doubt the authenticity of the product. If I were selling fakes, I'd do the same.


Quite. An ebay still collects the commission, the seller is happy and the buyer(s) are blissfully unaware. Even we're happy because we were not fooled.
Lawrence
Matured cask
 
Posts: 5019
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 1:01 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:49 am

It looks like some more 'old' bottles have appeared, but this time on very short auctions.
As I post this, only 5 hours left!

Ebay: 160086014350
Ebay : 160086014369

At least the labels look older and more ragged this time, but given the history of this seller I am really very dubious.
MT
Deactivated Member
 

Postby corbuso » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:56 am

Malt-Teaser wrote:It looks like some more 'old' bottles have appeared, but this time on very short auctions.
As I post this, only 5 hours left!

Ebay: 160086014350
Ebay : 160086014369

At least the labels look older and more ragged this time, but given the history of this seller I am really very dubious.
MT


Just looking at the label and the indications on it, I would not bet more than £15 on them.
For such a price, I would like to have a certificate of authencity from Martin Green or any other know expert, like they do in McTears auctions.

Corbuso
...............
http://www.whisky-news.com
corbuso
Gold Member
 
Posts: 878
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 11:56 am

Return to Collector's Corner

cron

Whisky gift and present finder