Whisky investment

[rushtonma]

Hey there, I'm new to scotch whisky, but am very interested in both the drinking and collecting of it. I am currently working on two collections; one for drinking, and one for showing off in a glass case. I'm looking for a currently available scotch whisky that is predicted to be valued/desired by collectors in the future. Thanks.

[Shargard]

Hi,
If you are new to the whisky i would recommend you following. Read some books - find out some informations about regions, distilleries, whisky itself. Taste from each region a decide what is the best for you. I am collecting bottles. Have some rare bottles but they are close to my heart as well. Do you know what i mean? I am not focusing if the bottle will have value in future for other people. You will always find someone who likes same style as you unless you want make a lot of money. Have fun with discovering whisky world

[The Third Dram]

Welcome to the forums.

Before going any further, it's critical to pinpoint exactly what you mean by 'investment'.

Generally speaking, if you are looking to purchase whiskies that will eventually escalate in value and/or become very difficult to procure in the future solely with an eye to being able to open and enjoy them down the road, then your range of choices is quite broad.

However, if you are planning to purchase such whiskies only in an attempt to realize a considerable appreciation in value in terms of selling them in the future, your plan represents a far greater, and far more risky, challenge. I would caution you against taking this route, as your hard earned cash would probably be better invested in other ways.

The speculative market in 'rare' whiskies has exploded over the last decade or two, as many individuals have jumped on the bandwagon in just such an attempt to profit from their 'investments'. This phenomenon, in turn, has radically altered the 'landscape' of the 'rare whisky' segment of the market. Bottom line: With a greater number of individuals partaking in such purchases and an increased willingness on the part of distilleries and their parent companies to cater to this market with 'limited edition' releases, it has become extremely difficult to predict which whiskies will gain substantially in value and which will simply linger in the doldrums.

I'd seriously suggest you concentrate on purchasing only whiskies you fully intend to open and drink in the future. If, by chance, some of these do dramatically increase in value down the road, you will then have the happy task of deciding whether to enjoy them yourself or to sell them to someone else.

There are many worthwhile strategies to employ in this sort of pursuit, such as concentrating on whiskies from closed distilleries, whiskies that are issued in very limited quantities or whiskies that are set to be replaced by newer versions. You may also wish to focus on the whiskies from a single distillery, thereby acquiring a number of different bottlings from said distillery - this is a good way to go, by and large.

Be aware, however, that the 'golden age' of being able to buy very fine whiskies that have since gone on to become collectors' items has, by and large, passed. In short, don't expect to find too many true bargains these days.

To summarize:
1. Always buy first to enjoy rather than simply to invest.
2. Buy whiskies that taste good.
3. Establish a budget, and stick to it.

[rushtonma]

I will clarify that I have no intention of buying a bottle solely for the purpose of hoping that it appreciates in value over, say, a 15 year period, and then selling it as a, pardon the pun, "liquid asset". However I would like a collection that I enjoy for what it is, but also because I know I have a few "gems" amongst some of the bottles as well. I was just curious as to weather or not there is a current bottle of whisky out there right now that has been getting alot of buzz, and I should think about getting in on the ground floor now, rather than paying much more for it a few years from now. I'll give an example with Ardbeg Uigeadail. I currently have an opened bottle from 2010 from which I enjoy the odd dram on special occasions (as a bottle here in Canada is in the $160 range). This bottling has gotten a lot of hype, but will it be the next 1974 Provenance that is less than 15 years removed from circulation and sells for thousands of dollars? As good as it is, is it worth buying another bottle and keep it unopened to hold on to it's collectors value?

[dramtastic]

In the case of the Uigeadail I would find it highly unlikey that it will ever have any investment value, for a starters there are thousands of bottles of the stuff.
Apart from that I don't follow the whisky 'investment' scene close enough to know about what's 'buzzing' at the moment.
You will however have to look for limited releases. I mean, Jim Murray gave Ballatines Finest his Scotch blended whisky of the year 2011 and a 96/100 score. It's only ever going to be a cheap blend no matter what the hype cuz there is a zillion bottles of the stuff......and it is actually bloody aweful as well!

[The Third Dram]

Living in Ontario and dealing with the LCBO's 'exalted' price lists as you are, you face (right from the start, and similar to my situation in neighbouring Quebec with the SAQ) the prospect of paying not inconsiderable sums for most of your spirits. Yes, this reality is tempered somewhat by a reasonably broad (though not great, by any stretch of the imagination) product range. But those profit margins and added taxes do still hurt a little bit.

You will however have to look for limited releases.

I agree with dt here.

Mass-produced whiskies will, even if they eventually are discontinued, take that much longer to disappear from the shelves. As an example, I purchased some Balvenie 10 Year Old Founder's Reserve shortly before it was replaced in the newer lineup. However, I fully realized that some of this whisky will likely be floating around for a long time to come, and my purchase was therefore motivated solely by a desire to have this very good whisky on hand rather than by any hope of its appreciating in value. And as dt mentioned, Uigeadail is quite similar in this respect.

I think we both are recommending that you focus on limited batch releases such as specialty issues from unusual cask maturation regimens, vintage issues and, of course, single cask editions. If you happen across 'dusty bottles' from releases that have since been discontinued, all the better. Cask strength editions bottled without chill filtering or colouring (E150 spirit caramel) almost always represent good choices, too.

Also, if you're travelling outside of your territory, it's worthwhile to keep an eye open for any bargains or unusual bottlings you might come across. Importing whiskies from abroad is (as you probably already know) a proposition that has its own risks in terms of laws and regulations.

I apologize for not offering any specific recommendations here. It's simply that availability of whiskies on the shelves changes so rapidly these days that it's difficult to keep up sometimes.

Keep checking the product listings (LCBO and elsewhere, if need be), search out reviews/responses on the web, and you'll soon get a feel for what will work for you and what won't.

[adogranonthepitch]

You cant go wrong with any of the Brora 30yo's that have been released in the last ten years.

[MARS]

The brora 30 years old OB is a very good idea. Still, they are not cheap!
Better to take 2002(first one),2004 or 2005(most looked for).

Got the chance to found one 2002/2004 at good price and a few 2006 at very good price.

Closed distilleries are a good bet but you have to avoid the bad one(I am talking about the whisky, not the distillery).

Always a good idea to buy the whisky at a good price too. The first money you win is the one you didn't spend!

[rushtonma]

Thanks for the advice folks! The Brora 30 sounds pretty good, although where I am, it is extremely difficult to come across. I'll keep my eye out for some limited editions. What do people think of the HP St. Magnus? It seems a little "gimmicky" to me, as it just appears to be a slightly altered HP 12 yo. It is not even available in Canada yet, but looks like it will be priced in the 180$ range. Pretty pricey. How does it taste?

[The Third Dram]

Hmmm... HP Saint Magnus. Well, I'm of mixed feelings concerning this one...

Negatives:
Far from a 'limited edition' (over 11,000 bottles issued, I believe)
Extremely pricey for a 12-year old (even at 'cask strength')

Positives:
Has received some good reviews (notably from John Hansell)
Possesses a certain panache (and the packaging is first rate, which likely contributes significantly to the cost)

The Saint Magnus actually appeared on the SAQ shelves this last Friday at 10:00AM. It's now sold out. Yes, I did manage to purchase a couple of bottles. But then, as an owner of a pair of Earl Magnus 15 Year Old releases, I'd been waiting since last autumn for the Saint Magnus to appear. My judgement is therefore hardly unbiased. Furthermore, there was a discount of sorts this past weekend through the SAQ, so I didn't pay full price. No, I haven't popped it open yet, and probably won't for a little while.

You'll have to judge this purchase for yourself when the LCBO gets around to releasing it. I'd recommend your being a little more conservative if it's not a case of you already having obtained the first edition in the series (i.e. the Earl Magnus).

[rushtonma]

Hey TDD, any idea when St. Magnus will be available in Ontario? It's listed on the LCBO website, but with no release date. I'm guessing soon though if you guys just got it in PQ.

[The Third Dram]

Hey TDD, any idea when St. Magnus will be available in Ontario? ... I'm guessing soon though if you guys just got it in PQ.

I think that's a reasonable assumption.

[rushtonma]

So, unfortunately I think the Brora 30 is out of the question due to availability in my neck of the woods. As well, I think I will pass on the HP St. Magnus as TDD mentioned it is far from a limited edition at 11,000 bottles. Any other suggestions?

[dramtastic]

Any other suggestions?

Move to the UK