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Ghost marks or forgery ?

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Ghost marks or forgery ?

Postby Alik » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:57 pm

:) ,
Last year i bought a collectors bottle Brora OB 24 YO 1977-2001 56,1% RMS bott.5881 without box from a well-known Italian online reseller .. by close examination (and with "special" light) i was stunned by the stains on the bottle glass (see pictures).. it looked very peculiar and i suspected forgery was in play .. i did some research and the farthest i get was that the bottle originally came from the well-known MetroBar in Milan .. does anyone has an explanation for these marks ??
Thxs.

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Re: Ghost marks or forgery ?

Postby tollickd » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:47 pm

To me they look like finger smudges with oils. If the bottle has been in a bar that sells food then that might explain it.
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Re: Ghost marks or forgery ?

Postby Alik » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:02 pm

:-) .. thxs but i'm afraid you do not know what barmetro is in Milan .. they don't sell food but it is a prestigious cellar where you can find very rare spirits (http://www.barmetro.it) .. now,the stain are IN the glass ,you cannot remove them with solvent for example.
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Re: Ghost marks or forgery ?

Postby The Third Dram » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:14 pm

Funny... My first guess was that those areas are the result of exposure to vinegar or some other form of acetic acid. Older glass, such as found in antique glass bottleware, can be prone to developing matte-like splotches. That said, I would not necessarily expect to see such loss of glass sheen in your particular bottle, as it strikes me as a little too 'young' to show evidence of that phenomenon.

However, you now confirm that the areas lie beneath the surface of the glass. Strange indeed!

I also note that there are obvious diagional scratch marks to the right of the lower portion of the label.

All of these factors raise a smidgen of doubt in my mind concerning the bottle's authenticity. I'm not saying that it has been subject to tampering, but am merely stating a slight degree of concern.

Therefore, it's worth checking other parameters of the bottle in question:

1. Is everything else (proper unmarked cork stopper with tan-coloured wooden top as well as silvery foil capsule with subtle horizontal circumferential striations and no punt - i.e. indentation - on the bottom of the bottle) in order?
2. Fill level. I would be a little wary if the fill level in a bottle of this age reaches much higher than mid-neck level, as that could possibly indicate refilling.

Other than that, the very best way to discern authenticity might be to open the whisky and have a go at the contents.

Best of luck. :thumbsup:
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Re: Ghost marks or forgery ?

Postby Alik » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:46 pm

Thank you The Third dram :-)
The level is indeed worrying high .. the stopper looks ok .. the pictures speak for themselves .. what do you think ?
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Re: Ghost marks or forgery ?

Postby The Third Dram » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:10 am

I don't see anything untoward in the last series of photos you posted. Therefore, it may be time to move on to the next stage, if you so wish:

The Third Dram wrote:...the very best way to discern authenticity might be to open the whisky and have a go at the contents...
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Re: Ghost marks or forgery ?

Postby lincoln imp » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:47 am

I have had a close look at the seal pictures. I have no Brora bottles but I am looking at 2 Port Ellen Bottles filled in 2000 & 2002 I believe.

The fill level is a bit misleading as mine are quite low in as much as lower neck etc but I have had other Rare Malts bottles from other distilleries that have remained high.

What I have noticed is that the silver foil on the capsule appears to either be slightly dirty or a liittle pock marked (for want of a better phrase), the silver sheen is not there the silver looks dull etc. That said I suppose over various bottle runs the quality could change.

It is not an exact science to be fair and I am no expert.

Like you I have also bought bottles from Italian sellers, for me you need to find one you know you can trust and stick with them. That applies to whatever country they come from.

Unfortunately Italy had alot of bad press when it came to fake bottles especially on ebay etc.
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