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Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Alan Gold Label » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:50 am

I don't think it says "pure pot still" on GreenSpot's label does it? Is it not a blend? Or a pure pot still blend or whatever?

It's damn nice and very moreish as I could drink it all day long but at 45quid a bottle man, nah not on your nelly.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:37 am

From the old Irish whiskeys I've tasted, I'd sat modern pure pot still is very very different to how is used to be.

Green Spot does't say pure pot still on the label, but I was told recently (I think on these forums) that is is a pure pot still, after some speculation that it had been converted to a blend. Some is sold in Germany with a strap on the neck saying it's pure pot still.

Did I also hear recently that it is a bit younger than it used to be?

A blend like Blackbush uses about 70% malt, so it's good quality. I think many scotch blends are about 80% grain.

In my opinion, the best blended whiskey is Irish, in general. Powers, Jameson, etc. is all made in the same distillery. The grain really suits the pot still whiskey. All top quality stuff goes into them.

I think Loch Lomand also do a single-distillery blend.

There are also some great Scottish blends, lots of them.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Alan Gold Label » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:37 pm

Got any recommendations for a Scottish blend? :)

I was in Marks and Spencer there and saw the had some Scottish blend (which I think had an age statement) for €20 in a little gift pack. Obviously an Xmas/Birthday prezzie for the uncle/da/granda/father-in-law etc.

I've not actually had many Scottish blends other than the standard ubiquitous stuff like Johnnie Walker, Bells, Grants et al.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Pure Pot Head » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:19 pm

ooking forward to the CWS pure pot still


Sorry lads, what does CWS mean?

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:02 pm

Celtic Whiskey Shop.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Pure Pot Head » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:07 pm

Cheers Aidan (aka John)

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:14 pm

No problem. It's a very exciting release, as IDL very, very rarely bottle pure pot still for anyone. The exceptions being La Maison du Whisky and Glen Dimplex (and of course Mitchell's). Maybe there's some more, but I don't know of any.

It will be expensive, though. A single cask.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Pure Pot Head » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:48 pm

Aidan,

I was really fortunate to be part of a tour of the Midleton Distillery recently and the guys opened a cask of 18yr old pot still. It was sensational. When you talk to the distillers they have no problem letting people into their world but they're just completely up to their eyeballs keeping the show on the road when Jameson is exploding (which is great in itself, let's be thankful for that). I think we'll see more engagement but it's more a matter of time and space to step off this roller coaster of a booming world wide demand for the main lines than any philosophical secretiveness. Maybe the CSW thing is a sign of more effort towards the whisky enthusiasts. Fingers crossed the best is yet to come.

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Alan Gold Label » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:47 am

Aw man, this whiskey is sooo good.
I'm trying to limit myself but it's useless. I've even begun sharing it with friends to spread the wealth!

Think I'm going to need a trip to O'Briens for another bottle :(
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Novice Scotch Fan » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:00 am

I gotta bottle that I can't wait to open. Never read anything negative about this whisky.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby centrefire » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:39 pm

(-No problem. It's a very exciting release, as IDL very, very rarely bottle pure pot still for anyone. The exceptions being La Maison du Whisky and Glen Dimplex (and of course Mitchell's). Maybe there's some more, but I don't know of any.)- excerpt from Aiden above:
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I was never at IDL, but they sell Redbreast labelled Pure Pot still and say that its traditional, so I cannot see how that squares with the above.

Mitchell's was always PPS unless they changed recently.
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There is no doubt the Middleton people are on top of their heads with the export success of Jameson. And thats good to see. Some Jameson is sold with 3 cans of minerals in the pack. So its partly aimed at those adding mixers ( a complete No - No for the whiskley buff). Jameson and powers are OK, Bit like a mother, when your weaned on them you grow tired of them. I would guess Both contain mainly middle run pot still + grain spirit. The premium feints being kept for the more expensive labels. Thats how other producers work anyway.
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As to whether modern PPS compares to old stuff. Only a sample would tell. So what could have changed. 1) Modern grain production with spays for weeds and combine harvesters -v- old treshing mills and narural drying of grain on the sheef. 2) change in water, ID use the river Dourney, would you drink river water? nitrates from farms etc. 3) Wood changes from old trees growing for years before barrell making started, now most forests are managed and trees cut earlier.
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I still maintain not withstanding that redbreast and Mitchel's Green Spot are lovely whiskeys, I never tasted grain spirit in them. But watch for Dillons and Gilbeys' bottlings. They are blends and not a patch on redbreast by Irish Distillers sell in a pale brown box.
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Its a funny thing about Irish whiskey labelling that a producer can say pure pot still character whiskey, meaning that the bottle contains a portion of PPS, + Grain. In scotland a blend must be labelled a blend, not so in ireland
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:14 pm

The old Redbreast was produced from whiskey produced at Bow Street. I believe the casks were given to the bottler to vat and bottle themselves back in the day.

Today, it's produced by Midleton exclusively - not for anyone else. Distilled, matured and bottled by IDL.

I also believe it was always a pure pot still, no? Except for the very different version in a very different bottle labeled a blend.

I was not counting this as a bottling for someone else. The 15 year old version was bottled after a request from La Maison du Whisky.

There were rumours that Green Spot was no longer pure pot still going around a while ago, but this turns out to be not true. It doesn't say pure pot still anywhere on the label. No that it matters, because a great whiskey is a great whiskey.

Many things have changed with the modern bottlings. I think they may be better than the old ones, at a similar age, but it's a matter of taste.

They used to use other grains in the mash, and the new Midleton facility is unlike anything operating in Bow Street. I doubt pestacides or sprays would have much affect on the taste. And they don't do their own malting anymore. I'd say the modern cask selection is much more rigorous too.

I love Powers. I know of few better blends. It is interesting that they Scots have to label their stuff blends, but the Scots don't make the rules for us. The SWA are coming up with all sorts of pompous rules. Cooley were forced to take the word glen off a whiskey after a threat from the SWA, even though Cooley is in a Glen. They certainly weren't trying to pass off Irish whiskey as Scotch. They dropped the label immediately, to avoid any hassle.

We can do what we like, having a very long tradition of whiskey production. Powers is what it is. It's a blend made entirely from whiskey produced at one distillery. Very few Scotish distilleries do this. It's all down to individual taste, but I love it.

I also like standard Jameson, but the 12 year old versions of both Jameson and Powers are superb, rivaling the top malts, in my opinion.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:49 pm

Pure Pot Head wrote:
I was really fortunate to be part of a tour of the Midleton Distillery recently and the guys opened a cask of 18yr old pot still. It was sensational. When you talk to the distillers they have no problem letting people into their world but they're just completely up to their eyeballs keeping the show on the road when Jameson is exploding (which is great in itself, let's be thankful for that). I think we'll see more engagement but it's more a matter of time and space to step off this roller coaster of a booming world wide demand for the main lines than any philosophical secretiveness. Maybe the CSW thing is a sign of more effort towards the whisky enthusiasts. Fingers crossed the best is yet to come.

Pure Pot Head


That sounds like a great privilage. Hopefully I'll tour the plant some day.

Also, I read that while Jameson rocketing sales have decelerated somewhat, they are 2% up this year. However, that is an excellent performance, considering the fall in sales of other Pernod Richard brands. In previous years, Jameson sales were rising 15 to 20 percent, year on year.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Pure Pot Head » Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:52 am

Hi Aidan,

And therein lies the opportunity for IDL to open up a bit more to the more inquisitive among us. When volumes were rampaging faster than their physical ability to match production needs things were particularly frenetic, although I believe they're still forging ahead at full speed. You sound like a real enthusiast and getting to visit the plant should not be a problem if you go through the channels. Are you part of a whiskey club or society?

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Alan Gold Label » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:59 am

....
Last edited by Alan Gold Label on Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:05 am

Pure Pot Head wrote:Hi Aidan,

And therein lies the opportunity for IDL to open up a bit more to the more inquisitive among us. When volumes were rampaging faster than their physical ability to match production needs things were particularly frenetic, although I believe they're still forging ahead at full speed. You sound like a real enthusiast and getting to visit the plant should not be a problem if you go through the channels. Are you part of a whiskey club or society?

Pure Pot Head


Yes, I'm a member of the Irish whiskey society, and the Celtic Whiskey Shop organises distillery visits, so maybe they would be willing to give us a tour at some stage.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:45 am

I was under the impression that Greenspot is under IDL control now too.


michael Foggarty wrote:ye the big news is it will be in a box, which should mean we can charge about 50 grand a bottle


No doubt you will :lol:

Maybe you should just remind that there is a recession going on :P
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Alan Gold Label » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:08 am

Maybe it'd have a better profile if IDL with looking after it? After all, what can one shop do for it!

I'd like to be able to get it for €4.50 a measure in more bars as well as it being more affordable. Even purchasing it in Newry or elsewhere would be great. Sod paying €45 on it anyway.

Price of everything and value of nothing I know but sure, this a resession on!
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby michael Foggarty » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:01 pm

Alan Gold Label wrote:Maybe it'd have a better profile if IDL with looking after it? After all, what can one shop do for it!


This is a single cask so WE the ONE shop as you refer us to wont actually have to do anyhthing for it as its likely to sell out in a matter of days.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:24 pm

I think Alan might mean the Green Spot.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Pure Pot Head » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:28 pm

I was under the impression that Greenspot is under IDL control now too


Mitchels have all the rights to the brand in Ireland as part of an historic arrangement but it is very much a Jameson brand. The Jameson seal is on the label and the neck collar and IDL control the brand worldwide.

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Alan Gold Label » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:37 pm

Aidan wrote:I think Alan might mean the Green Spot.


Yep :angel:
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby michael Foggarty » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:41 pm

Apologies :oops:

Mitchells (like ourselves) have a wholesale team who sell all over Ireland(Republic) but they choose not to sell Greenspot to others. IDL do actually sell the brand in other parts of Ireland, IWC might have seen it in Galway etc

A sample of the new Midleton Single Cask PPS arrived to day so will hope to try it tomorrow, i think its 14 years old(but dont hold me to that)
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:01 pm

Sounds great. Do you know how many bottles you'll be getting? Will it be called Midleton? Or something else?
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Alan Gold Label » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:22 pm

michael Foggarty wrote:Apologies :oops:

Mitchells (like ourselves) have a wholesale team who sell all over Ireland(Republic) but they choose not to sell Greenspot to others. IDL do actually sell the brand in other parts of Ireland, IWC might have seen it in Galway etc

A sample of the new Midleton Single Cask PPS arrived to day so will hope to try it tomorrow, i think its 14 years old(but dont hold me to that)


No worries. I wish more bars had a bottle of Green Spot.
Is there a list of Dublin pubs that have it?
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby michael Foggarty » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:56 pm

Bull & Castle, Ryan of Parkgate Street, Nancy Hands of Parkgate Street, All the Porterhouse(except "North"), Bowes, The Palace, Temple Bar, Vat House, O'Niells, Nearys, McDaids, Bruxelles, Jack Nealons, Brooks Hotel and probably every other 4/5 star hotel. To name a few
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Alan Gold Label » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:54 pm

michael Foggarty wrote:Bull & Castle, Ryan of Parkgate Street, Nancy Hands of Parkgate Street, All the Porterhouse(except "North"), Bowes, The Palace, Temple Bar, Vat House, O'Niells, Nearys, McDaids, Bruxelles, Jack Nealons, Brooks Hotel and probably every other 4/5 star hotel. To name a few


Ah cool cheers :) I've been to most of those. I should go drinking in Bowes more often, I hear they've a good whiskey selection in there.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby centrefire » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:21 am

I will not give the real surname of my farming neighbour. But we will call him "Kelly". Not his real surname! I dont want to embarrass him here. He is a substantial farmer who allows me to shoot on his land. He has a good spread of rocky highland in Cavan and a great wet bottom for shooting snipe! His name is Willie, (but there is another Willie Kelly in the area who is small,) this fella is big: so they call him "Big Willie." He farms with his son "Packie" . There are 2 other Packie Kelly's in the area, so they call him after the father "Packie" "Big Willie" Kelly".
Anyway: the tax man had doubts that they were filing the correct VAT returns and sent Concepta (a Vat from Kildare (tax) inspector to check them out). She found everthing ok, other than a minor discrepency about shares in Tullow Oil resourses, and she gave them a clean bill of health. But Packie "Big Willie" took a shine to Concepta and she likes him, and now they are gitting married on the 19th november this year.
While I was at the cattle mart in Ballyjmaesduff, Big Willie (knowing I was a bit of a whiskey expert) asked my advise! He is delighted at the match and thinks the Concepta will make a great farmers wife because she has 4 budgies and a conemara pony. He wants to treat the guests with something special. (he has plenty of old money). Of course, I can only recommend whiskey! (being a whiskey lover). But I must be sure that the guests like what I recommend, being ordinary Cavan and kildare people. Has anyone any advice.!!!? Powers Jameson, Paddy and Bushmills original are out (to common. ) (Teachers, Cream of the Barley, Black and white etc are out. Something costing up to 60 euro a bottle and something that the hotel will be able to sourse would be ideal. The hotel say they will do what they can to order 5 bottles when he makes up his mind!
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:13 pm

Is this for the bar to be served to paying guests or does he want bottles for a toast or to give out measures as gifts or rounds to certian people.

If it is for paying guests just ask for a bottle of decent scotch like Lagavulin 16yo and make sure they have say all the 12yo IDL whiskies. Jam 12 Powers 12 & Redbreast 12 & Bushmills 16yo. Or have the IDL Plinth

Strangely the easiest drinker on the market that would appeal to the widest audience is Midleton but at 150Euro a bottle a bit pricey.

Remember most Irish Whiskey drinkers stick to the bog standards like Jameson Powers etc So I would suggest play it safe and maybe a step up to Jameson 12yo & Powers 12yo % Redbreast 12yo andything else is really going into the unknown for most people and they may not accept as readily and anything too different may not impress people either.

Other than that I'm not sure how you can advise.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Alan Gold Label » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:49 am

Sticking to the Middleton whiskeys would indeed be keeping it safe. Cooley's Irish whiskeys might seem unusual to someone who might only know the Jameson kinda stuff.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby centrefire » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:42 pm

Hi

The guests will NOT be buying. Packie just wants to buy a drink for several people he knows. Some will take bog standard vodka,gin etc. But he wants to be able to suggest to drinkers (who are set on Powers etc) that he has ordered a special drop and invite them to partake ( he may stand more than one measure each. Its just to express his approval of everyone present and to be a bit out of the ordinary. The hotel will supply it like any other whiskey, and charge him as he buys (say 5 euros a go, or even 10)

i.e. Say he meets the brides uncle from Kildare, he would say "will you have a drop of very good whiskey" or whatever your pleasure is? If the uncle says O : K : he will call the drink. However he must ensure that there are supplies of that drink and the hotel will order in what he specifies: (if they can get it).

I don't like Bushmills malts (too much like Lowlands Scotchs). The only Cooley would be Connemara, but the peat might not go down well, so thats leaves IDL! What about Jameson 18. Had it once, its a very fine "feminine" drop. Or Jemison gold!. I don't think the hotel will be able to get Redbreast 15 yo.

I am coming to the notion that it should be "Irish whiskey," being that there are all into horses, football, ploughing championships etc! But I take the point my friend makes here about Lagavulin. I think that Middleton reserve will ring a bell and have that exclusive quality. Personally I would recommend "Redbreast" 12 which can easily be ordered, but maybe its not expensive enough. There will be no real whiskey people in attendence, but I reckon some will know a good whsikey when they get it. My own 4 favourites are Bruichalladdish 15, Taliskey 10 and Makers Mark and Mitchells Green spot, But it might not be possible to get them.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby michael Foggarty » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:59 pm

I think a Redbreast 12 will go down well, about the whole expensive thing would they really appriciate an expensive whiskey? If so, what about the Tyrconnell finishes my favourite has to be the port its absolutely amazing and half the price of Midleton VR
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Pure Pot Head » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:08 am

Get down to the Old Jameson Dstillery, but a couple of bottles of Distillery Reserve and get them to put '"Fragrance of Concepta" on the label, it costs about €55 a bottle including the personalised naming, organise corkage with the hotel, and order a round of 'Jameson Fragrance of Concepta' for everyone and pass around the bottle and they will love you forever.

Plus it's a fab whiskey. Won gold at the Stockholm Beer and Whiskey Festival even though it's not meant to be let out of Ireland.

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:05 pm

Pure Pot Head wrote:Get down to the Old Jameson Dstillery, but a couple of bottles of Distillery Reserve and get them to put '"Fragrance of Concepta" on the label, it costs about €55 a bottle including the personalised naming, organise corkage with the hotel, and order a round of 'Jameson Fragrance of Concepta' for everyone and pass around the bottle and they will love you forever.

Plus it's a fab whiskey. Won gold at the Stockholm Beer and Whiskey Festival even though it's not meant to be let out of Ireland.

Pure Pot Head



I think that is a great idea ... not sure about labeling it "fragrance of concepta" though :lol:

Any hotel worth it's salt will allow you to bring in your own and possibly charge something 2-3 Euro a pour commission.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby centrefire » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:43 pm

Well I was agreeing with Michael fogerty, then Pot still head came up with his idea, and then Irish whiskey chaser confirmed it. One thing is obvious, all agree it is to be Irish whiskey, so that bit is sorted. The thing about Tirconnell is that I found the original no-age - statement good at first, but it is terrible now. So I have not tasted the wood finished stuff, but a bit risky?

Packie's "Ban an Ti" (wife) likes the idea of middleton reserve but thinks the Redbreast is "christmasy". I hope to get time to ring the Jamesson place in Dublin.

"Just a thought, would "fragrance of Concepta" suggest that there is a smell of whiskey of her? Maybe for lack of bother, and certainty, Red Breast would do nicely. My bias towards PPS is hard to overcome.
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