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Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:19 am

centrefire wrote:Can Firewallxl5 say which Scottish distillery has produced Malt Whiskey in column stills? It could be done, but the continuous still strips too much of the malt flavour for malt wash which would be somewhat counterproductive. But I will look into it. Would be interesting to taste it.

Can Aiden say where in Scotland lowlands whiskey was made from malted barley and unmalted grains. Never heard of that, will check it out on getting name of distillery.



I had heard this before, but it was confirmed in a post from another forum recently, citing a book by Charles MacLean.

Curiously enough, I was flipping through Charles MacLean's history on Scotch whisky the other night and he mentioned that, aside from all the Scottish stuff that was dubiously run through Irish customs houses and then shipped out as Scotch, there were a few genuine expressions of Pure Pot Still whiskey made in the lowlands by distillers trying to meet the demand for the drink back in its 1860s heyday. Specifically, Caledonian, which at the time was the second largest column still grain distillery in Scotland, installed two pot stills in 1867 specifically for the production of PPS whiskey from a mixed malted and unmalted mash etc. Even before that time, it seems to have been quite common in the lowlands during the late 1700s to have used mixed mashes in their stills. In "The Wealth of Nations" for example, Scotland's own Adam Smith talks about the lowland industry by remarking that "In what one called malt spirits, it [malt] makes but a third part of the materials; the other two thirds being raw barley or one third barley and one third wheat." I remember hearing that the original Irish PPS whiskeys sometimes used other grains than barley in the unmalted section of the mash which seems rather similar to Smith's description.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Pure Pot Head » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:31 am

When Andrew Jameson describes the production of Pure Pot Still during his contribution to the Commission on Potable Spirits he talks about Jameson at that time using Barley Oats and Wheat.

James Powers contribution is the more amusing of the two and in it he describes the column still as a 'box of tricks,' and claims never to have even seen one! When pressed on whether a column still whiskey could still be matured in casks to produce a whiskey he was dismissive asking, 'why mature something when there wasn't anything there to maturer in the first place.'

I saw Ryan's Daughter for the very first time ever over the weekend. They're in the bar drinking from one of the old Jameson Pure Pot Still bottles even though the film was made in 1969 I think, but it was set in 1916. A nice little period piece and attention to detail I thought.

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Pure Pot Head » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:35 am

"Just a thought, would "fragrance of Concepta" suggest that there is a smell of whiskey of her?



Or a smell of her off the whiskey? Maybe some of you chaps have a view on which Irish Whiskey has the more floral and fragrant bouquet :D They say the grain whiskey element does bring such qualities.

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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby centrefire » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:22 am

Right: The whiskey is ordered, Redbreast 12 yo. Not to be opened till the wedding party arrived. I m invited after wards, so will get a treat as its near my place. Thanks for the suggestions, but tradition and logistics won it in the end.

By the way, whats the story with Clontarf Blend. I have not a clue: But there is a taste of cocconut which I like. seems like a malt with a little grain. It says "Blend" on label and tripple distilled. So that rules out Cooley. Let me guess: Blend = product of 2 or more distilleries (Irish law) so Middleton + Bushmills. Taste is not of bushmills so could there be a drop of PPS in there?
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:49 am

Clontarf used to be Cooley. One or all of the Clontarf branded whiskeys was charcoal filtered. Today I'd say the blend is Bushmills and maybe Midleton grain. i don't know for sure, though.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby michael Foggarty » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:45 pm

centrefire wrote: Let me guess: Blend = product of 2 or more distilleries (Irish law)


How do you explain Millars, Lockes Blend, Wild Geese, they only have Cooley whiskey in them.

There used to be 3 Clontarfs one was a Cooley Blend, the other was a Cooley Single Grain and the third was a Cooley Single Malt. The Single Grain has been dropped now, the malt is Bushmills and the blend is Bushmills and Midleton just like Bushmills White Label, Blackbush and Paddy.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:07 am

Was Bestman at my friends wedding lately and they organised a warm punch and whiskey reception.

The whiskey selection was going to be Jameson, Paddy & Powers.

Luckily I got a say :mrgreen:

Jameson 12, Powers 12 & Paddy, as part of my present to the couple I also provided a bottle of Midleton & Redbreast 12yo.

The Midleton went down a storm but it was obvious that people were lapping it up as it was free. The redbreast did not do badly either. But have a guess what was the winner of the day.


Paddy :shock:

Yes I kid you not ... and this is why premium whiskies do not fly off the shelves in Ireland. A lot of the grooms family were staunch Paddy drinkers and even with the others on offer they stuck to Paddy. This shows that brand loyalty counts for a lot in Ireland and really sticks when it comse to the big 3 standard whiskies.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby Aidan » Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:23 am

Were they from Cork by any chance?

I will have to try Paddy again. They may have improved it recently, who knows.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:35 am

Aidan wrote:Were they from Cork by any chance?

I will have to try Paddy again. They may have improved it recently, who knows.


No they were from Kerry & Manchester :o

I presume the Mancunians were originally Kerry too but it was very strange that they all were so into their Paddy. ALot of Paddy and red or ginger ale also.

Anybody outside Ireland may be wondering about Paddy & Red ??? The red refers to Red Lemonade which seems to be a very Irish thing.
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby centrefire » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:28 am

The wedding went well. I was treated to a few Redbreasts.

See Michael Fogerty's of the 11th November 09 on blends. I am explaining the law on blends. There are 2 and no body seems to give a hoot in Ireland unlike the US and Scotland. Under Irish Law a blend is the product of more than one distillery (full stop) no matter about the type once it is whiskey.

Accodding to EU law, a blend is a mix of whiskeys from 2 of more distilleries or a mix of spirits of more than one type. (see my previous article which is a direct copy and paste from the section).

Remember, there is no requirement to put blend on the label. Under Irish law it is an offence to put "blend" on the label unless the product is of more than one distillery. So they regard a blend as an admirable quality. Thats what I say about Irish Whiskey. Only buyers vigilance will protect you, dont expect the law. ---- Oh and do you know something, I am beginning to think that, that "Santy" I saw in Lidl Supermarket is not the real "Santy" "Santa" for those in Dublin of the UK. I just wrote to the real one for a bottle of "Buichaladish" 15 year old. One of the best I think. And if he cant get it for me, I will settle for the 14 year old "Links" or failing that Talisker, Dailwhinnie 12 or Pulteny 17 year old!
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby centrefire » Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:38 am

Well you guessed it. I dont believe in Santy, but those Scotches a prity good, What do you think?
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Re: Redbreast 12 a blend or not?

Postby centrefire » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:46 am

Ok

No taker's on that last contribution. Well did you know that a "Humphry Gumley" had a distillery in Belturbet Co. Cavan in 1802. There was no record on him in 1822. But he was still around. Seems that the excise duty put him off whiskey making. Also that while Barley is the malting grain of choice, every grain will malt "even Maize".

In the states many farmers cut miaze as a silage feed and put it into silos. But before they do so they place crocks with lids (ajar) on the floor. When the winter is over, the crocks are full of a sweat naturally fermented liquid. They "illegally" distill this and it is said that there is no whiskey in the world as good.!

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