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Bourbon

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Bourbon

Postby brian12069 » Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:12 am

Any other bourbon drinkers here? I have tried different whisky and whiskey's but I really prefer bourbon whiskey. There are a few that I really like....Elijah Craig, Knob Creek, Makers Mark. Just wondering if anyone else prefers bourbon and which you like...thanks...
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Postby Admiral » Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:38 am

I must first confess that I greatly prefer scotch.

However, of the bourbons that I have tried, I particularly like Jim Beam Black Label.

Bookers is also extremely drinkable.
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Postby blackkeno » Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:38 am

My favorate bourbons would include: George T. Stagg, Blanton's, and the Van Winkle 107 line. Each year, on Mardi gras, I pour some of my Pappy 23yo. Tomorrow, I will do a head to head with it and the Van Winkle 20yo, CS (unchillfilterred) bottled for Sam's in Chicago.
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Postby Aidan » Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:47 am

Yeah, burbon is a great drink. I don't think scotch is a superior drink to burbon, or visa versa. Vastly different though.

I too like Maker's Mark. Wodford Reserve is also fantastic. I used to like the Wild Turkey 8, but have gone off it a bit.

I have not tasted it, but the George T Stagg won Jim Murray's vote for the whisk(e)y of the year. I look forward to trying it. Buffalo Trace has some good stuff in general.

I never liked Jack Daniel's but have not tried it in years.
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Postby Shigga » Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:02 pm

My favourites are Woodford Reserve which is a great Bourbon, Knob Creek and Elijah Craig 12yo. Maker's Mark and Wild Turkey Rare Breed I have yet ro try. Also aquired a taste for scotch though. That's a great variety to choose from, just fascinating :)
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Postby brian12069 » Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:35 pm

Jack Daniels isn't bourbon, although everyone thinks it is.
Aidan wrote:Yeah, burbon is a great drink. I don't think scotch is a superior drink to burbon, or visa versa. Vastly different though.

I too like Maker's Mark. Wodford Reserve is also fantastic. I used to like the Wild Turkey 8, but have gone off it a bit.

I have not tasted it, but the George T Stagg won Jim Murray's vote for the whisk(e)y of the year. I look forward to trying it. Buffalo Trace has some good stuff in general.

I never liked Jack Daniel's but have not tried it in years.
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Postby Aidan » Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:53 pm

Actually, I had heard that before about Jack Daniels. It is a straight whiskey or a sour mash, or something like that.

I would love to taste Rye whiskey, but it isn't that available this side of the pond.
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Postby Shigga » Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:23 pm

Wll actually its's a Tennesee Whisky which differs form Bourbon in two main aspects:

a) it must be destilled in Tennesse

b) it uses the method of charcoal filtering

Everybody thinks of JD as a Bourbon because a long time ago they did indeed make Bourbon for a couple of years. plz correct me if I'm wrong. :)
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Postby blackkeno » Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:27 am

Based on the legal definition of bourbon, many people hold that JD qualifies. In addition to meeting the requirements to be bourbon (51-80% corn, new charred barrels, 2yo & maximum proof off the still of 65 (or so)), it ALSO meets the two requirements you mention.

Bourbon has much tighter laws prohibiting additives than Scotch. They can't use coloring or any other spirits (even residual amounts through used casks). Some might argue Tennessee whiskey's "Lincoln county process" adds something thus making it no longer bourbon. Most would hold that it is just a manner of filtration and does not disqualifiy it as a bourbon.

In any even, it is in no one's interest to market JD or Dickel as bourbon. They are proud to be Tennessee whiskey, and Jim Beam certainly isn't going to argue with them!
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Postby r0b » Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:59 am

The ones you mention is top-notch stuff and sometimes I wonder if Scotch-snobs, in their refusal to accept anything outside Scotland, aren't really missing something really special.

Of course.

Elijah Craig 12, Maker's Mark Red (haven't had the cash for the black yet, have you tried it? If so, is it woth 4 times the price of the Red?), Wild Turkey 8 and Rare Breed... Oh my!

Right up there next to Ardbeg, Lagavulin and The Balvenie.
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Postby brian12069 » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:54 pm

r0b wrote:The ones you mention is top-notch stuff and sometimes I wonder if Scotch-snobs, in their refusal to accept anything outside Scotland, aren't really missing something really special.

Of course.

Elijah Craig 12, Maker's Mark Red (haven't had the cash for the black yet, have you tried it? If so, is it woth 4 times the price of the Red?), Wild Turkey 8 and Rare Breed... Oh my!

Right up there next to Ardbeg, Lagavulin and The Balvenie.

Actually, right now I have a bottle of 18 year old Elijah Craig. I have never seen Makers Mark Black though???
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Postby brian12069 » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:46 pm

Old Whiskey river is good too. 6 year old...
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Postby r0b » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:38 pm

brian12069 wrote:I have never seen Makers Mark Black though???


Maker's Mark Red is the standard but there is also black and gold. They cost considerably more than the red unfortunately.

Have you tried your Elijah Craig 18?
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Postby brian12069 » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:54 am

r0b wrote:
brian12069 wrote:I have never seen Makers Mark Black though???


Maker's Mark Red is the standard but there is also black and gold. They cost considerably more than the red unfortunately.

Have you tried your Elijah Craig 18?


I have a bottle of Elijah Craig 18 now...absolutely delicious!!!
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Postby r0b » Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:15 pm

Brian, how much did you pay for it? My girlfriend is in the US now and she says she saw it for $ 33 but I suspect she's mistaking it for the 12 year old.
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Postby brian12069 » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:25 am

r0b wrote:Brian, how much did you pay for it? My girlfriend is in the US now and she says she saw it for $ 33 but I suspect she's mistaking it for the 12 year old.


I think I paid $38.00 , it's not real expensive, VERY VERY good though!
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Postby r0b » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:00 am

WTF!!! $ 38! I live in Sweden and it's not even available here (just the 12) but in Germany where I often buy from, it's at the equivalent of 75 dollars!

Better ask the girlie to buy a bottle! Thanks for informing me, ! :)
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Postby r0b » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:07 am

By the way, Brian, you seem to know your bourbon. How is the Knob Creek 9 Yrs compared to Maker's Mark (read seal) and Elijah Craig 12?

Is it as tasty as those? Big Bodied? Lots of flavour?

I'm considering buying a bottle... (never tried it)

Thanks for any info!
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Postby brian12069 » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:43 am

r0b wrote:By the way, Brian, you seem to know your bourbon. How is the Knob Creek 9 Yrs compared to Maker's Mark (read seal) and Elijah Craig 12?

Is it as tasty as those? Big Bodied? Lots of flavour?

I'm considering buying a bottle... (never tried it)

Thanks for any info!


Rob...quite frankly they are all very good! I was on a Knob Creek kick for a while, love the stuff. Then recently I have been "sampling" some Makers Mark. I had it a while back and tried it again...all I can say is DAMN...The Makers Mark has a very different flavor. I can't quite describe it but it is very different in my opinion from other bourbons. But you honestly can't go wrong with any of those three choices. You have to remember, all bourbons are made in America and they can not have any flavoring or colorings added, it's PURE whiskey from the barrel. All good stuff. I try to stick with bourbons that are aged at least 7 years or so. There are some very good bourbons in the states that are very reasonably priced!!!....by the way...right now my favorite is my 18 year old Elijah Craig!
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Postby brian12069 » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:50 am

I LOVE hearing from other bourbon lovers!!! :lol:
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Postby brian12069 » Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:53 am

by the way...has anyone tried Bookers Bourbon??? From what I have read it is the only bourbon that isn't filtered from the cask??? I would like to hear about this if anyone has tried it...THANKS!
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Postby brian12069 » Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:01 am

Aidan wrote:Actually, I had heard that before about Jack Daniels. It is a straight whiskey or a sour mash, or something like that.

I would love to taste Rye whiskey, but it isn't that available this side of the pond.

I have never tried Rye either, hopefully soon will though.
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Postby Admiral » Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:45 am

To answer a few questions raised above:

1. Bookers Bourbon is very nice, but has a very high alcoholic strength. I definitely had to add water to bring down to a more drinkable strength. (Around 50% in my case). Of the four small batch bourbons produced by Jim Beam (the other three are Basil Hayden's, Knob Creek, and Bakers), the Bookers is definitely the best. It is also the most expensive.

2. All bourbons are "sour mash", whether they state it on the label or not. Sour mash is the way of describing the backset process, whereby 25% of the mash is actually the left over residue from the previous distillation. Since this backset has already been stripped of its sugars, it is "sour". The practice came about to promote consistency between subsequent distillations, and also, it was felt that the acidic backset would help control bacterial contamination. If backset is not used, this is referred to as "sweet mash", but the whisky can no longer be called bourbon. (It will be called Kentucky Whisky or something similar).

3. Makers Mark contains no rye in the mashbill. The mashbill is mostly maize, but the remainder of the small grains is wheat. This is different to most other bourbons, (e.g. Jim Beam) where the mashbill might typically be 75% maize, 10% malted barley (used to assist in fermentation), and the remainder would be rye, wheat, or a portion of both.

4. Jack Daniels is a Tennessee Whisky, not a bourbon, although in truth, the only difference is the last step of filtering the spirit through columns of charcoal made from burnt sugar-maple.

5. Rye whiskies are hard to come by, although Jim Beam Straight Rye (the one with the yellow label) is available in most countries and districts. Bear in mind that it is not a 100% rye whiskey. In fact, Jim Beam Straight Rye only contains 51% rye. Presumably, the majority of the remaining 49% is maize, and so while it certainly tastes different to Jim Beam Bourbon (the white label), the difference in flavour is not earth-shattering.
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Postby r0b » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:51 pm

brian12069 wrote:You have to remember, all bourbons are made in America and they can not have any flavoring or colorings added, it's PURE whiskey from the barrel.


Indeed. This is one of the reasons I have taken a leap into the wonderful world of bourbon. All natural, no messing about with additives or coloring. You know when you buy a bourbon that it's the real thing.

My next bourbons to buy later this month are Buffalo Trace, Bulleit Frontier, Blantons Special Reserve (Green Label) and lastly, WL Weller 12 Yrs.

I can't wait! :)
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Postby SasquatchMan » Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:15 am

Rye is sweeter and sometimes harsher than bourbon, I find, but then the Canadian govt allows rye to hit the market after only 3 years of aging, so some are better than others. It tends not to be as complex as big bourbons, and not as heavy or complex as Scotch. That said, it is by far the best mixer for coke, if that's your bent.

I like Maker's Mark too... hope it never gets too popular (= expensive). I think it's a good deal, and though I do love EC as well, it's more expensive here, by quite a bit, so I generally stick with maker's mark in the flask.
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Postby brian12069 » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:39 am

r0b wrote:WTF!!! $ 38! I live in Sweden and it's not even available here (just the 12) but in Germany where I often buy from, it's at the equivalent of 75 dollars!

Better ask the girlie to buy a bottle! Thanks for informing me, ! :)


Rob, I went back to the Same liquor store today and I made a mistake...that 18 year old Elijah Craig is only $33.00!!! That is a good price, the 12 year old was $23!...not bad
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Postby brian12069 » Sun Mar 07, 2004 12:30 pm

Went for a ride last night. My Uncle called me (he knows I like sampling fine bourbons) A friend of his owns a bar that served Bookers...I had never tried it before. All I can say is...DAMN!...that was good! Very very different flavor...maybe a hint of maple? Can't quite describe it but Bookers is real good!
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Postby r0b » Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:20 am

Brian, you are a lucky son of a b***c to be able so taste all that good stuff! :wink:

Thanks for the info "God save the Tsar", I skipped that one for now (because they upped the price, but now I have another reason to do so).
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Postby r0b » Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:54 am

By the way, very nice and informative post above, Admiral.
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Bourbons I have tasted..........

Postby BourbonBorderline » Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:22 am

Hello. I am new to this Forum and as a budding bourbon drinker, I'm glad I found a place to talk whiskey.

I have been drinking bourbon for about a year now.My dad introduced me to bourbon, before that, I thought Jack Daniel's was the end all of whiskeys. He says it's about time I grew up. :roll:

Anyway, these are all the ones I have tried, in no particualr order:

Elijah Craig 12 Yr. :) makes a real good Mint Julep
Fighting Cock 6 Yr.
Evan Williams 7 Yr.
Evan Williams 1992 Single Barrel Vintage - was disappointing
Jim Beam Black
Old Ezra 101 :?
Old Ezra 99 15 Yr.
Knob Creek :D
Wild Turkey 101 :)
Wild Turkey Rare Breed :D
Wild Turkey Russel's Reserve :(
Wild Turkey Kentucky Spirit Single Barrel :)
Maker's Mark
Eagle Rare Single Barrel 10 Yr. :D :D
Booker's :D :D :D

And I have a bottle of Buffalo Trace yet to be opened.

I think the Booker's is the ultimate bourbon[so far], but at $53 a bottle, I save it for special occasions.

I drink all my bourbon neat, or with just a splash of water. No ice, unless I'm making Juleps...... :wink:

I just opened the Eagle Rare Single Barrel, and it is very, very good, especially for the price - $27. But hard to find. Only two stores in the state of WA carry it.

I am going to explore the little known bourbons next - Elmer T Lee, Rock Hill Farms, Weller Centennial, Baker's, Ancient Age 10 Star. Oh yeah, and maybe Woodford's Reserve.

Why bourbon? Because it is truly American made[not much else is these days], and it is pure with no additives. And it just tastes darn good.

Looking forward to interacting on the forum.

Cheers,

Matt
Maple Valley, WA USA
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Postby r0b » Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:51 am

Hi there BourbonBorderline, most of us here are malt-fanatics, but I, for one, appreciate all tips on good bourbon.

Stick ariund. :)
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Postby brian12069 » Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:49 am

I know it's not bourbon...and its kinda hard to find by me but I was wondering if any of you have tried Jim Beam Rye?...comes in a yellow bottle. I like bourbon and this is pretty similar...a little smoother...not as much bite as some bourbons?...anyone....
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Postby brian12069 » Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:52 am

BourbonBorderline...you have a good dad introducing you to bourbon...sounds like a good man to me! :lol:
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Postby r0b » Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:52 am

I'll get back to you on that as I'm getting a bottle of it within two weeks.
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Postby brian12069 » Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:55 am

also...bourbonborderline...I always liked Evan Williams 7 Yr. (for a more inexpensive bourbon)...not bad stuff...CHEAP TOO 8)
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