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Residue in Whisky Bottle

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Residue in Whisky Bottle

Postby wpt » Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:38 pm

Recently received a Springbank 21yo.

Upon inspection of unopened bottle noticed a white-ish residue at the bottom. It floats when I stir the contents a bit. I do not think it is cork. This is a non-chill filtered whisky. Any ideas?

Thanks.
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Postby lucabeer » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:04 am

I had the residues in a Springbank 10, and also in a Talisker DE 1986.

I don't think it's an issue...
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Postby richard » Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:17 am

i had the same in some glenlivets more older stuff i dont think its a problem somebody out there will tell us more or contact a distillery they should know

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Postby wpt » Wed Feb 02, 2005 1:31 pm

But what is the residue made of?
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Postby Matt2 » Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:11 pm

I think the key to this is 'non-chill filtered'. Some of the bottlings are now stating on the label that the whisky may have a small amount of residue or appear cloudy. This is because they have not filtered out all the bits, these topics may help you ....

Chillfiltering
Non Chill Filtered
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Postby richard » Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:27 pm

thanks matt i will have a look

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Postby wpt » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:22 pm

>>>>(white flakes even, bit like dandruff?)<<<<

that is what is in my Springbank 21yo

dandruff like/sugar like grains
as well as some bits of shredded cheese like matter.

weird?

haven't opened yet, wondering if i should exchange the bottle
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:36 pm

And I thought the guy wearing too much cologne at Bowmore was a problem....
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Postby wpt » Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:42 am

>>>well, I think there are a lot of persons that would like to test it for you and then tell you wheter the particles did any damage<<<

yes, yes. to be shared with a few friends. just my curiosity in wanting to know what the "little extras" are 8)
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Postby Admiral » Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:50 am

:D I've read a lot of literature and writing about whisky over the years. I don't think I've seen the word "dandruff" used before!!! :lol:

Cheers & thanks!
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Postby lucabeer » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:19 am

C_I wrote:Interesting that you (lucabeer) also find white precipitation (white flakes even, bit like dandruff?) in the Talisker 1986 DE.


Yes, like dandruff (yuck!). And some little brown specks, too.

In the Springbank, hugish long flakes. They looked a bit like wax crumbles.
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Postby wpt » Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:40 pm

>>>In the Springbank, hugish long flakes. They looked a bit like wax crumbles.<<<

yes that's what i have.
any impact on nose/palate (good or bad)?
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Postby Aidan » Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:43 pm

Yeah, i've had bottles with this. It usually settles on the bottom of the bottle if you leave it down for a while. I think it could be from the cork, but I don't know.

Maybe some kind of dried sap...
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Postby Lawrence » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:16 pm

It is called 'flocculation' (stop laughing). There are two types, the first is caused by cold temperatures and is reversable. The industry has dealt with this by chill filtering.

The second is known as 'irreversible floc' This shows itself as very small hair like crystals of calcium oxalate, which slowly form and settle in the whisky when natural low mg/l concentrations of oxalic acid in the whisky react with similarrly low concentrations of calcium ions. Irreversable floc formation is eliminated by ensuring that final calcium concentrations are kept to a minimum by demineralizing the water in the final reduction.

Now you know.

The above was stolen, almost word for word, from Whisky, Technology, Production and Marketing by Inge russell.
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Postby wpt » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:53 pm

Thank you much!

For "irreversible floc", I assume that Springbank and other distilleries often choose to not demineralize their waters as it is those dissolved constituents in the water that help contribute to some of the libation's flavor?

Or is the "irreversible floc" a sign of poor quality whisky-making?

>>
It is called 'flocculation' (stop laughing). There are two types, the first is caused by cold temperatures and is reversable. The industry has dealt with this by chill filtering.

The second is known as 'irreversible floc' This shows itself as very small hair like crystals of calcium oxalate, which slowly form and settle in the whisky when natural low mg/l concentrations of oxalic acid in the whisky react with similarrly low concentrations of calcium ions. Irreversable floc formation is eliminated by ensuring that final calcium concentrations are kept to a minimum by demineralizing the water in the final reduction.
<<[quote][/quote]
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Postby Lawrence » Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:30 am

I beleive that is it not a sign of poor whisky making and that it has no effect on taste. It just happens during bottling and the equipment needed may not have been available to Springbank at the time. The last sentence is just speculation on my part.

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Postby lucabeer » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:53 am

So it's not dandruff... I'm relieved!
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Postby Admiral » Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:19 pm

If the water hasn't been de-mineralised, does that mean that the reducing water could actually be local spring water?

(As opposed to processed distilled water?)

Personally, I see that as a bonus. You're drinking Springbank malt that's been reduced down to 43% (or whatever) with real, local Springbank water! It doesn't get more authentic than that!

Cheers,
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Postby hpulley » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:43 pm

My bottle of Islay Bottled Bruichladdich 15yo has some whiteish residue in the bottom. I had the penultimate dram last night and noticed a good puff of it. The final dram will be had shortly. Still tastes good, though Laddie 15 is not my favorite dram by far.

Harry
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Postby Aidan » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:57 am

Flocculation is used in the water purification process to remove solids from water (I think using aluminium hydroxide), so maybe this flocculatoin in the whisky is removing some of the flavor. I don't know.
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Postby kallaskander » Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:02 pm

Hi there,

http://www.lenntech.com/coagulation-flocculation.htm

http://www.crc.dk/flab/newpage4.htm

http://www.foodproductdesign.com/archiv ... 996AP.html

these links lead to very technical descriptions which goes to show that the magic of the still and the magic of the barrel produce a chemically volatile and dynamic fluid that very well can contain its own flocculation agents among many other components.


Greeting
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Postby Lawrence » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:34 pm

Flocculation is the result of adding water before bottling and is caused when naturally occuring concentrations of oxalic acid in the whisky react with low concentrations of calcium ions.

Irreversable flocculation formation is kept to a minimum by ensuring that demineralizing the water used for final reduction.
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Postby Aidan » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:35 pm

Lawrence wrote:Flocculation is the result of adding water before bottling and is caused when naturally occuring concentrations of oxalic acid in the whisky react with low concentrations of calcium ions.

Irreversable flocculation formation is kept to a minimum by ensuring that demineralizing the water used for final reduction.


I suppose if treated water were somehow used, it might still contain traces of aluminium hydroxide. I will ask the vendor this next time I got to buy a whisky. He will be perfectly within his rights to punch me on the nose, of course.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:09 pm

Sure. Or maybe worse.
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Postby Aidan » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:21 pm

C_I wrote:Aluminum hydroxide... very doubtfull of finding that in tapwater or spring water. I think aluminium is not even allowed in drinking water. Makes you forget things..

The flocculation that occurs when adding water to the whisky is not only calciumoxalate, it is also the less soluble oils.

(Didn't we had this discussion before?)

Just a different theory, is it possible that irreversible flocculation (precipitation of Ca-salts) "ripens" the whisky, thus decreasing nasty elements (oxalic acid is not a very nice tasting substance), thus increasing the good taste of whisky? And that the use of hard water prior to bottling might reduce some of the acids in the whisky, making it better?


Most likely, but there was a lot of controversy about the use of aluminium hydroxide in water treatment because of alzheimer's. It was probably unfounded (its presence in post-treated water) as it would be easy to test for in water.
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Postby bjorn » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:04 am

>>Flocculation is the result of adding water before bottling and is caused when naturally occuring concentrations of oxalic acid in the whisky react with low concentrations of calcium ions.<<

now that's interesting...my stagg is, of course, full cask strength...what is that stuff?
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