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Talisker 10.........

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Related whiskies : Talisker 10 Years Old

Talisker 10.........

Postby andrewfenton » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:44 am

.....is back. Whatever screwing around they did with the recipe has been fixed - the pepper is back. The major change seems to be a touch more sherry, but that's more apparent on the nose than the palate, although I think it's contributing to a bit more texture in the dram. There's also maybe a bit more peat than I remember, but it's by no means overpowering, and it's fully integrated within the overall flavour structure.

Overall, it's not quite as powerful as the previous attempts, but it's still delicious. I think perhaps they've fixed the probems with the flavour profile by adding some older sherry casked whisky, but that's just a guess really.

Damn good dram - especially with 20% off in Tescos atm. Now I can leave off the lovely 91 distillers a bit :-)


ps it needs just a dash of water, to open it out. There's a slight toffee harshness to it otherwise, like a young Ledaig, but with the water it unfolds beautifully. Mrrrrm - this bottle is not going to last long.
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Postby Admiral » Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:33 am

Glad to hear it!

Unfortunately, it will probably be 6-12 months before these latest bottlings make their way down under. :(

Is there new packaging or labelling? Anything to discern this from the current caramel-tasting Taliskers?

Cheers,
Admiral
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Postby bernstein » Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:40 am

Hi Andrew - that would be definitely breaking news! I'm such a poor fellow, my malttime started up after the disappearence of the old old-style Talisker 10. Any chance one could distinguish new 'old-style' from old 'new-style' Talisker? I mean appart from actually tasting it. Any numbers on the bottle or something like that?

Edit: Uupps - Admiral was faster from his side of the globe to post a similar question.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:03 am

Very interesting indeed--I hope we'll get some corroboration soon enough (not to impugn your credibility or anything). Andrew, your observations re sherry match up with my very limited experience with what seems to be a peat/wine synergy--particularly my bottle of (deep breath) Signatory Vintage Straight From The Cask 1979 Port Ellen Burgundy Finish (gasp), which has a pronounced Tabasco note. I remember the old Talisker making me sweat.
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Postby andrewfenton » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:54 pm

The packaging seems the seem to me, unfortunately :-( It being Tesco, I presume they go through their stocks _very_ quickly, so it's likely to be a very recent bottling.
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Postby bernstein » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:09 pm

Believe it or not - I had a Talisker 10 last night and it made me sweat, t'was pepper all over, I thought. Kind of 'autosuggestion'? :wink:
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Postby Mr Fjeld » Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:46 pm

Las weekend I had the very same result as you Bernie! I also wondered about the same but there was clearly a peppery feeling on the tongue! Maybe it never totally lost it's "pepper" ?

Skål!
Christian
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Postby andrewfenton » Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:12 pm

Dunno if anyone knows the magic art of deciphering bottling numbers, but I'll post them anyway:

Front label, left side: 31009772
Rear label, left side: 31009771

Printed onto rear of bottle:
L4355CM000
05236141

Engraved into bottom of bottle:
underlined "04" in centre
1127 round edge
17 round opposite edge


05236141 looks the most promising - year+cask number?
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Postby kallaskander » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:07 pm

Hi there,

believing that it is old news for you I would like to venture to mention that Talisker is bringing water in from the mainland and is warehousing most of its malt on Scottish mainland as well, despite possible redundancy. I do not know unfortunately how far from the coastline. Needles to say that the malt comes from some maltings as well. This practice is going on now for quite some time, even if I do not happen to know the exact date. What we all learned from our books and from taking part in tastings is that the barrel and its location during the maturing years plays a essential role in the development of a malt. Somewhere the question was risen if Talisker could still be called an Island whisky. That does sound like there are drastic changes going on with Talisker.
As to the codes and numbers I can not be of help, I´m afraid. But who knows what they could tell us?

Greetings
kallaskander
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:59 pm

kallaskander wrote:What we all learned from our books and from taking part in tastings is that the barrel and its location during the maturing years plays a essential role in the development of a malt.


This is still a highly arguable premise. Temperature and humidity certainly do play roles; proximity to the sea? There is probably no definitively empirical way to find out. Some take the notion absolutely for granted, and others regard it as romanticized marketing hooey.

kallaskander wrote:Somewhere the question was risen if Talisker could still be called an Island whisky.


Hmmm...a good question. If Scotch whisky must be matured in Scotland, oughtn't an Island whisky be matured on an island (and, more to the point, on the island on which it was distilled)? The difference is that "Island" is not a legal designation; but if the Scots truly believed in the concept of terroir, as the French do, it certainly would be. The SWA is coming rather close to opening that can of worms with its edict that a bottle labeled with a regional designation must contain only whisky from that region--the "Islay Cask Rule", if I may call it that.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:25 pm

Hmmm.... My Canadian duty-free bottle ("PRODUIT D'ECOSSE"), purchased in May 0f 2003, has none of those markings at all.

Doubt there'd be any cask reference--like most single malts, this is a vatting.
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Postby andrewfenton » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:00 pm

Sorry, it's definitely a 5 :-(

Looking at my bottles, some seem to follow the code you describe, but others use something else. An Uigedail, bottled late last year, has L4 315 09:25. One i got recently (and it was just off the delivery truck) has L4 349 12:19. A recently bought Laphraoig QC has LF110R3K 8:47, a 10 CS from last year has LU25526 and something else that looks like a time.

A Lagavulin, from mid 2004, has the same (common Diageo?) layout as the Talisker: L4314CM000, above 04585064. It looks maybe like the second line's first two digits are the year - anyone else with Diageo can help confirm/reject this?
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Postby Lawrence » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:14 pm

Glad to hear the shy and retiring 'pepper' Talisker is back, maybe 'they' listened to us this time.

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Postby andrewfenton » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:36 pm

Aha, yes, that makes sense. Can't believe I didn't spot that - perhaps a lesson in watching movies to 6am and overenjoying the Talisker.....

My previous theory has been abandoned btw, a Talisker 20cl recently bought has the second line start with 00, so scrap that. However, Diageo definitely seem to follow a standard - I found a recent Oban that fits the L-followed-by YDDD model.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:49 pm

C_I wrote:Sometimes it is rather hard to find these lotcodes... Try to find it by looking through the bottle to the front label.


Ah, there's something...very hard to read through the liquid. Now I know what all that caramel's for! :wink: L15N00895241. Now where's that secret decoder ring?
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Postby bernstein » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:05 pm

andrewfenton wrote:I found a recent Oban that fits the L-followed-by YDDD model.

I hope folks at CIA, MI5, KGB etc. aren't screening these threads on a regular basis. :shock:
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Postby Mr Fjeld » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:21 pm

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Postby Admiral » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:39 am

Language :!: :shock:
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Postby Admiral » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:43 am

Talisker is bringing water in from the mainland and is warehousing most of its malt on Scottish mainland as well,


Perhaps the whisky matured on the mainland is destined for the blenders, and the whisky left on Skye is for bottling as single malt?

Cheers,
Admiral
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:06 am

Wasn't there an article in Whisky Mag or elsewhere on how to read these things? During my exhaustive but fruitless search for same, I found a directive from the Province of Quebec stating that all bottles and packages sold there must have a production code plainly and indelibly marked, indicating the bottling date. And sure enough, there's a sticker on the box which bears the bar code and also this: +249680. This number is also stamped in a dedicated box on the front label, which has obviously been produced especially for Quebec. Bearing in mind that the bottle was purchased in May of 2003, we can cross-refer +249680 with L15N00895241 and deduce...what?
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Postby bernstein » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:13 am

Admiral wrote:Perhaps the whisky matured on the mainland is destined for the blenders, and the whisky left on Skye is for bottling as single malt?

You’re a man of noble sentiments, Admiral! And a romantic as well, I’m afraid. :wink:
Though I’ve no confirmed information about Talisker, Diageo’s general line of argumentation might apply here as well: “Our findings show that it is Scotland and its climate that is the important thing. It’s irrelevant to us whether Lagavulin is aged on Islay or in Central Scotland.”*.
We should bear in mind that most of Lagavulin and nearly all Caol Ila says farewell to their Islay home after a week or two. Diageo says, it’s not significant enough for the company to worry about. The author Andrew Jefford comes to the conclusion: “If enough drinkers begin to disagree, then it may become significant enough for Diageo to worry about.”

Agree! Eh, I mean disagree! :roll: Ach, you’ll get my point…

* cit. after Andrew Jefford: Peat, Smoke and Spirit, (headline) London 2005, p.285.
** p.286.
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Postby bernstein » Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:07 am

And BTW, Admiral, weren't you the one making very valid points lately about the marketing guff that comes with our favourite drinks? I just re-read (reread?) what's printed on the Lagavulin label:
"Moss water, passing over rocky falls, steeped in mountain air and moorland peat, distilled and matured in oak csaks exposed to the sea shape Lagavulin's robust and smoky character."

He, he :wink: !
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United Glass FAQ

Postby ronnie » Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:11 pm

This is going slightly off-topic, but found the following on United Glass' (that serves Diageo and Allied etc. with glass) homepage:

http://www.united-glass.co.uk/faq.asp


10. What are the numbers, letters and dots that feature on a bottle?

A: The base of a bottle includes a number of identification codes. Each bottle will incorporate some or all of the following:

> The Punt Mark - this symbol identifies which glass manufacturer made the container - in UG's case, this is a miniature UG logo

> A plant identifier - a letter followed by a number identifies which plant made the glass - U8 shows the container was made at United Glass in Alloa, U0 means it was made in Harlow

> The job number - typically consisting of two letters followed by three numbers, this identifies the actual container

> The capacity - usually shown in millilitres or centilitres

> The fill height - shown in millimetres, this is the depth below the rim of the container to which the product should be filled

> The section code - a series of dots, this identifies the mould used to make the glass. Combined with the date and time code printed on the bottle after manufacture, this enables any glass to be traced back to the precise section of machinery and mould in which the container was formed.
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Postby WestVanDave » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:43 am

Hi Mr T.

I hate to burst your inquisitive bubble - but your comments on the # produced exclusively for Quebec are a bit askew:

there's a sticker on the box which bears the bar code and also this: +249680. This number is also stamped in a dedicated box on the front label, which has obviously been produced especially for Quebec


This # (+249680) is the SKU assigned to Talisker 10 (Talisker 18, for example is +196154. These inventory reference #'s appear on all bottles (at least all I have seen in various provinces) across Canada and are not unique to Quebec - nor do they have any relationship to age or bottling dates... I don't know if similar (or identical) systems are used in other countries but they are of little help in determining age or distilling dates.

FYI - here is the BC Liquor Stores website - and the Talisker listing:

http://www.bcliquorstores.com/en/products?keyword=249680&pp=20&by=sku&asc=1&pg=1

And - here is the Ontario listing:

Search Results: 1 result found for "249680".

TALISKER 10 YR OLD
Great Britain | UNITED DISTILLERS GROUP LONDON LTD
LCBO 249680 | 750 mL | $ 65.45

http://www.lcbo.com/lcbo-ear/ProductRes ... BER=249680


Cheers, Dave.
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Postby Lawrence » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:43 pm

Dave and all, the numbers are called CSPC or Canadian Standard Product Code and are valid in all parts of Canada regardless of region.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:24 pm

Excellent! I am not bubble-bursted, but educated. Being able to throw out a useless theory is of great value. That leaves only the aforementioned label code to indicate the date.

Funny thing is, I don't really care anymore, and I'm not sure why I ever did. I guess it would be nice to know when the bottle was filled, but the broader question about exactly when Talisker got dulled, and whether it has come back, would require more examination and cross-referencing than is going to happen here, anyway.

For reference on the warehousing thing--Jefford lists, among many other technical aspects, a category titled "percentage of branded [i.e. OB single] malt entirely aged on Islay". For the record, here they are:

Ardbeg--100 "at present" (in the future, at least ten years)
Bowmore--100
Bruichladdich--100 (and bottled, with Islay water)
Bunnahabhain--100
Caol Ila--"almost none"*
Lagavulin--"well under 50"*
Laphroaig--100

*--Diageo
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Postby patrick dicaprio » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:38 pm

i never got a bottle while it was supposedly off, but did taste it at Whisky live where it seemed like the old talisker i remember.

one thing that struck me was that tasting the taliskers in sequence from youngest to oldest was that you really could see how it mellowed with time.

Pat
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Postby MGillespie » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:38 am

Admiral wrote:Language :!: :shock:


Christian, if you'd said it in Norwegian, it'd be OK...we probably wouldn't have understood it...but it'd be OK...
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Postby Mr Fjeld » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:48 am

Well, no need to take it too seriously - it's not exactly cursing is it? For all I care there are whiskies out there which deserves to be described as bloody good . A little cursing never demoralised anyone - unless one you happen to be a newly elected religious leader with a hang on banning the Beatles.

Skål!
Christian
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:00 am

Mr Fjeld wrote:Well, no need to take it too seriously - it's not exactly cursing is it?


Funny, Americans don't understand the difference between vulgarity and profanity. The word in question is considered terribly impolite by many, whereas the equivalent in other languages is considered fairly mild. Americans often label this sort of vulgar speech "profane", which it most certainly is not. And then there's "obscenity"...but quiet, Mr Picky's in the other room.
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Postby Mr Fjeld » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:28 am

Good points Mr Tattieheid! I guess one can learn a lot from trying to uncover cultural differences - many of them is embedded in the languages. If you at some point should consider making a change in your career I'd say a professorate in English would be perfect! And I'm not being ironic!

Skål!
Christian
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Postby Admiral » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:15 pm

As my wife's grandmother always says...."We have a perfectly good language with which to express ourselves, without having to use such nasty words!" :)

Cheers,
Admiral

(P.S. The term in question is a swear word in Australia, and is considered rude and offensive - at least to those that choose to take offence at it :wink: . Not that that stops people using it left, right, and centre of course, but it's certainly a word one doesn't expect to hear in polite society, and I'd like to think we can keep our discussions on the clean side of potty talk! :wink: )
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Postby Mr Fjeld » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:27 pm

It wasn't meant as anything else than a populare way of expression. I'll restrain myself in the future. Sorry if it upsets you.

Christian
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:26 pm

Admiral wrote:As my wife's grandmother always says...."We have a perfectly good language with which to express ourselves, without having to use such nasty words!" :)


%&*# yeah, Grandma!
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Postby MGillespie » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:16 pm

Mr Fjeld wrote:It wasn't meant as anything else than a populare way of expression. I'll restrain myself in the future. Sorry if it upsets you.

Christian


Didn't offend me, and we're all adults here anyway...

Reminds me of the joke about two boys, ages 6 and 4...

Older one says "you know, I think it's time we started cussing..."
Younger one: !*^%&, yeah!
Older one goes downstairs for breakfast...Mom asks what he would like...
"Hell Mom, think I'll have some Cheerios..."
SMACK! Mom sends the kid back to his room...
Younger one goes downstairs..."and what will you have for breakfast, young man?"
Trembling, he says "I don't know, but you can bet your fat ass it won't be Cheerios!"

Mark
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