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Does size matter?

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Does size matter?

Postby toshie » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:48 am

I notice Bamber from Bristol had a triple Ardbeg Very Young as he watched the sun go down last night and it got me wondering: how much IS a dram? Do most Forumites free pour or use a measure? Personally I like to know how much I'm drinking, so I use a quarter gill measure - not that I'm suggesting I confine myself to one quarter gill you understand :wink:
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Postby kallaskander » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:09 pm

Hi there,

again and again we were told that size matters not. Quality does matter though and attitude and of course the mood you are in not to forget the surroundings and the time and place. As to drinking whisky I out myself as a "free pourer". The glases I use have meassure lines but I tend to ignoring them. Again it depends on my mood. Sometimes I hit the mark and have poured exactly the 2 centi litres of the first mark of the glas sometimes I have a double or more related to that meassure.

Greetings and a late "Welcome" to this forum from me.
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does size matter?

Postby toshie » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:30 pm

Kallaskander, thanks for the welcome. I've found this forum to be full of friendly people willing to offer advice and support and I'm glad I found it. My pre-metric education means I struggle a bit with conversions, so I'm not sure how much 2 centilitres is - although it certainly sounds like a 'friendly measure'!
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Postby kallaskander » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:59 pm

Hi there,

ah yes, we tend to taking the values of the environment we grew up in for granted. Sorry for that. 2 cl are the 2 hundredth part af one litre. That is 0,042 pints or 0,0026 fl oz. Says my calculator. And that sounds and looks very strange to me.

Nice weekend and cheers.

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Re: does size matter?

Postby mbanu » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:13 pm

toshie wrote:Kallaskander, thanks for the welcome. I've found this forum to be full of friendly people willing to offer advice and support and I'm glad I found it. My pre-metric education means I struggle a bit with conversions, so I'm not sure how much 2 centilitres is - although it certainly sounds like a 'friendly measure'!


I don't remember my conversions exactly, but I think 2 centilitres is a little under three quarters of an ounce. :)
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Postby Lawrence » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:56 pm

First, welcome to the forum. At home I try to aim for a dram of an ounce but if it's a whisky that's little older then I might splash in a little more.

At once place I drink scotch at quite frequently they pour a one and a half ounce dram, which is nice.
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Postby lambda » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:03 pm

Usually a glass of alcohol is about 1.2 centiliter of pure alcohol. So depending on the alcohol percentage you can calculate how much you should pour to make it comparable with other drinks. For example, for the ardbeg very young with 58.3% alcohol: 1.2/0.583 = +/- 2.1 centiliter and for a whisky on 40% it's 1.2/0.4 = 3 centiliter.

Or you can just pour whatever that looks nice :wink:
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Postby Lawrence » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:06 pm

Or you can just pour whatever that looks nice



:D That's the ticket!
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Postby WestVanDave » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:48 pm

I recall the question of "what is a dram" some time ago on this forum... and as it has resurfaced here it prompted me to dig out a measuring cup I received - correct or not - that shows many different increments - and equates drams to fl. ozs. as:

1 dram = 1/8 fluid ounce
2 drams = 1/4 fluid ounce..... right up to 8 drams = 1 fluid ounce.

Then - to clarify if this was referrring to U.S fluid ounces or UK fluid ounces I revisited a website handy for such conversions to confirm - and it seems to agree - that 8 drams = 1 fluid ounce (U.S. liquid).

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

According to Webster's Dictionary - a dram is 1. "a unit of apothecaries' weight equal to 3.89 grams or 2. "a unit of avoirdupois weight eaual to 1.77 grams (and with the concentration of French ownership - we may see this gain in recognition :wink: )... or 3. "a small drink of alcoholic liquor" ... Oh, where is Mr. Picky when we need him???

Otherwise - I understand that "dram" has been colloquialized to mean: a drink amongst friends, and I'd agree with Lambda:

Or you can just pour whatever that looks nice


Cheers, Dave.
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Postby Lord_Pfaffin » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:41 pm

Lawrence wrote:
Or you can just pour whatever that looks nice


:D That's the ticket!


Quite rightly so! :wink: I get my ticket stamped and get off usuall at the station before Shickaryaville :lol:
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:48 am

Mr Picky recalls going around on this before and having personally come up with the 1/8 ounce definition. However, he also seems to recall an entirely different definition somewhere else, but cannot place it. Stay tuned.

Kallaskander's calculator is almost certainly suffering from decimal displacement. ("Kallaskander's Calculator" would be a cool name for a band.)

Standard measure in a pub in the UK is 35ml, or 3.5cl, which works out to almost exactly an ounce and a quarter (US measure). This will fill your Glencairn glass just about to its widest point, a tad lower, perhaps (and don't ask me what a tad is). It seems like a reasonable measure to me, and it will get you twenty servings out of a 700ml bottle. That's about what I aim for.

Ah! From the glossary in Jefford's Peat Smoke & Spirit:

dram A measure of whisky of indeterminate and variable size. The Oxford English Dictionary states that it originally referred to half a fluid ounce (2.8 cl) [I assume imperial measure--TH] of medicine, and thus by extension became 'a small draught' of any liquor taken on medicinal grounds. Charles MacLean suggeststhat a dram equated to one-third of a pint (18.9 cl) in the taverns of early nineteenth century Edinburgh, and to one gill (14.8 cl) as the standard issue in the distillery dramming tradition [being the practice of distributing new-make spirit to the distillery employees during the work day]

I suspect the 1/8 ounce dram is a perfumist's or chemist's measure. My Dad went to high school with Lyndon Larouche (a perennial fringe presidential candidate here in the US) and tells this story: The science teacher, when angered by a student, would invariably respond with "I'll --- you!", with the blank filled in with a pertinent word used by the offending student. One day some bullies dumped some perfume into Larouche's hair, and the teacher found him trying to wash it out in the sink. Asked to explain himself, Larouche said, "Sir, I am attempting to extract a dram of perfume from my hair." "I'll dram you!" said the teacher, which sounded just profane enough to break up the class. Similar hilarity ensued from another instance in which Larouche claimed to be conducting an experiment in electrical flux.
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Postby kallaskander » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:35 am

Hi there,

you are absolutely right, my calculator is not too well at the moment. "Kallaskander´s Calculator" IS a good name for a band. If anybody wants to use it feel free to do so please.

I´ll stick to the rule of thumb an pour what seem apropriate.

Greetings to Mr. Picky, I just love him.

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does size matter?

Postby toshie » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:51 pm

Phew! Thank you guys. After all that information I feel in sore need of a decent dram! :D
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:33 pm

Mr Picky blushes. :oops:

As for the original question, does size matter? The answer, of course, is no...unless you're the one with the big one!
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Postby Admiral » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:45 am

Of course, it's what you do with it that counts! :)

I still stick to my standard definition: "A dram is a measure of whisky, the size of which is entirely dependent on the generosity of the pourer".

Cheers,
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:07 am

The generosity of the pourer is directly proportional to his opinion of the recipient.
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Postby Lawrence » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:08 am

Aye, in the size of the dram and the quality of the same dram.
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does size matter?

Postby toshie » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:44 am

I recall reading somewhere the definition of a dram is a measure which is equally pleasing to the host and the recipient :)
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Postby Aidan » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:38 am

I think "professional" tasters require a certain amount to judge a whisky. Minimum 50 ml, or something like that...
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Postby kallaskander » Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:23 am

Hi there,

with a bottle of Macallan 18 years 1978 I bought years ago came a meassure. The card attached read that this meassure was to be used in case my friends or guests should like the Macallan overmuch, which would only be natural and was to be expected.
This emergency meassure was - a gold coloured thimble!

I never used it, though. And I did not lose a friend since then.

Greetings
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Re: Does size matter?

Postby bamber » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:47 pm

toshie wrote:I notice Bamber from Bristol had a triple Ardbeg Very Young as he watched the sun go down last night and it got me wondering: how much IS a dram? Do most Forumites free pour or use a measure? Personally I like to know how much I'm drinking, so I use a quarter gill measure - not that I'm suggesting I confine myself to one quarter gill you understand :wink:


Hi toshie - I also like to keep track so drink multiples of 25 mls.
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does size matter

Postby toshie » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:39 pm

Bamber: I'm using an old pub measure with a quarter gill capacity. The equivalent today would probably be the 35ml that some traditional pubs in Scotland (ie those who boasted they were a "quarter gill shop) have moved on to following an EU decision. So your tripple Very Young Arbeg would be 75ml and my half gill Bowmore 15 would be 70ml. Whatever, there's enough whisky there to keep us both happy :)

edit: that, of course, should be triple. Mmm! Perhaps I'll stick to singles before posting :lol:
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Postby bamber » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:45 pm

:D - Tripples generally follow triples !
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Postby bernstein » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:59 pm

:lol:
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Postby bernstein » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:05 pm

Again - the size of a dram depends
    on the residue in the bottle - the more a bottle comes to its end the generously a dram of that particular bottling becomes, just to render the opening of a new bottle... :wink:
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:33 pm

The last dram does seem to be rather large.... "Only one dram left...Oops!" Just as well, I guess.
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Postby Lord_Pfaffin » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:59 pm

Why i dislike the damned dimple in the bottom of the Ardbeg10 bottle it has left the last pour a little short on occation and i really hate it when the happens, it's worse than lunchbag-letdown.
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Postby MGillespie » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:32 pm

In a bar, the size of the dram is inversely proportional to the cost of said dram...the more it costs, the less you get!

Welcome, Toshie and Lambda...

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