Scotch and Maintaining a Healthy Weight...

[nicholtl]

I realize we're all scotch afficionados and enthusiasts here. Heck, just the fact that the 2 most popular threads on these boards are "What Did You Drink Last Night" and "What Are You Drinking Right Now" proves that!

My question is how many of us here are honestly, admittedly, of a healthy weight and, more importantly, have a healthy liver? And of those who are, how do you manage this?

Now, I understand life without it's pleasures or vices - bad as they may be - is not a life worth living. Personally, I have about 2-3 drams a night, more on the weekends when I go out to bars or clubs with my friends. The thing is, while they mostly order beers or cocktails (less alcohol content), I only order scotches and occasionally, bourbons.

And, as we all may or may not know, a 3oz pour of 40 proof whisky is 210 calories. More if it's higher in alcoholic content...

Is this considered drinking too much? At the moment, I'm 24, 6'0", and I maintain my weight of 138lbs by eating extremely healthy and lifting weights 5 times a week (and have been doing that religiously for the past 8 years). I'm just wondering if, one day, even while maintaining the same rigorous routine, such drinking will adversely affect my health, weight, or even worse - my brain?

Any thoughts or insights on this would be truly, truly appreciated. I've been told by many of my older (as in 40+) friends that I need to seriously consider cutting back - if not out - scotch and whisky...

[JWFokker]

The reason your friends think you drink too much is that they base what they think your drinking habits are, on what they see, which is when you go out on the weekends with them and drink more than you usually do. Also, if they're not scotch or bourbon drinkers, they probably think that it's much worse than it is. The fact is, for every 12oz beer (6% ABV) they drink, there's only about 1.5x as much alcohol per 3oz (40-43% ABV) of scotch you drink. I think it's perception. I have a couple drams a night, a couple more if I'm out with my friends. I wouldn't call that a drinking problem.

As for calories, beer has about 150-180 calories per 12oz, so it's not far behind scotch per drink. The problem with drinks with higher alcohol levels is the physiological side effect of increased abdominal fat. The term 'beer belly' is actually a misnomer, as beer had the lowest rate of increased abdominal fat. There was a direct correlation between ABV and abdominal fat increase, even if the total amount of alcohol consumed was the same. The mechanism responsible for this is not yet known. It may have to do with the increased rate of dehydration with drinks like scotch and bourbon. You're consuming the same amount of alcohol, a diuretic, while consuming about 9oz less water per drink.

If you eat well and exercise, you should completely negate the effects of drinking in regards to weight gain, especially if you have a couple non alcoholic drinks after having scotch. I'm 135lbs (sad, I know) and I have very similar habits to you. That said, my weight hasn't fluctuated a pound in the last five or six years, so I may be inexplicably immune to gaining weight.

In short, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Your friends are just concerned because they do not know. They have a preconceived notion of what's good and bad based upon what they do, without actually posessing the knowledge to come to an informed conclusion. Personally, I think you're alright. If you start drinking a third or half a bottle a night, every night, compulsively, you might have a problem. But no one knows better than you whether it's affecting you at all. Try not drinking for a week and see if you notice anything different. I doubt there will be, but you might want to anyway to placate your friends.

[Jeroen Kloppenburg]

Hmmmmm .....

Aside of whisky I have one interest which might even be put in higher regards by myself if I consider the ammount of time I put into it: Chinese martial arts.

I'm practicing this up to 5 hours a day in the weekdays, and also do a bit of running (cardio, up to 40 minutes) about once a week.

But I keep having a bit of a belly down there though =D (luckily having a bit of weight helps in the style I practice).

But I do indeed suspect the whisky being partly guilty of that

I also believe however that having 1 or 2 nights a week without any alcohol will really help you to keep healthy.

[Deactivated Member]

It's reckoned in the UK that 21 units of alcohol a week for a man, or 14 units per week for a woman, should be the upper limit.

With 40%ABV whisky, 1 unit equals a single measure (ie 2.5cl).

So, 2-3 drams a week plus more at weekends would be somewhat on the high side, even if they're all only singles.

Why not drink less but by more expensive bottlings?

[Admiral]

Controlling your weight when regularly indulging in alcohol means having to keep your metabolism up.

When you are young (i.e. less than 30), it's relatively easier to maintain your metabolism - particularly if you participate in active and cardio-vascular activities, and even more so if you are pumping iron at the gym. (Unlike fat, muscle is living tissue and therefore requires energy. Hence, having more muscle means your body is NATURALLY using up kilojoules 24/7, and so your metabolism stays high and active too).

There is a misconception that your metabolism slows down as you get older. It's simply not true. What tends to happen is that WE slow down, and so our metabolism slows down with us in tandem.

(What typically happens is that you hit mid-30's or whatever, have kids, and you don't have the time or energy to do the same physical activities and exercise you used to do. Since you are less active, your metabolism doesn't need to stay up at its previously higher levels, and so it slows down to suit your new lifestyle).

So, what's the moral here? Just be aware that if you change your lifestyle, or at least the amount of physical exercise you do, you need to be mindful to make appropriate adjustments in your diet - particularly if you are older in life. Let's face it, at the age of 40, you aren't suddenly going to go out and run a marathon after 10 years of sitting on the couch.

At the moment, it seems your life is in good balance - you are 26 with a healthy weight, you are active, and your kilojoule output is nicely negating your kilojoule input from alcohol. Just be mindful that if one of those parameters changes, then your life is no longer in balance, and that's when health can become a concern.

Cheers,
Admiral

[Deactivated Member]

If you keep drinking, you will die.

But...

If you stop drinking, you will still die.

[JWFokker]

A good point to keep your metabolism up. That's the key to burning fat. While exercise is the preferred method, it's always a good idea to have a cup of coffee or two in the morning as it not only increases your metabolism, it's also been shown to counteract the effects of alcohol on your liver. I generally have a Starbucks Doubleshot first thing in the morning and another in the early afternoon to keep me sharp.

[nicholtl]

Some very interesting insights here, everyone. I thank you for that.

JWFokker had some very relevant points regarding common misconceptions and how what others think may not necessarily equate to truth, or be completely pertinent to me. I guess in the end, there is no "absolute." They say how much you can safely drink depends on your age, your weight, and your tolerance. I was just concerned because I'm also very much a health/nutrition nut, and most other people I talk to who are into that sort of stuff (some bodybuilders, others not) say that even 1 drink is 1 drink too many. I can see where they're coming from, but if I were to deprive myself of even 1 drink a night, I'd feel it would be letting one aspect of life dictate everything else. Or in other words, it would be nazi-extreme. (Mr. Tattleheid - touche!)

Admiral, what you say also makes sense, about how our metabolism doesn't slow down, only our lifestyles, and so in turn, our metabolism. While that theoretically rings true, I think that's contrary to what every medical journal/publication I've ever read says. I'm not challenging you in any way, simply stating that from what I recall, our metabolism slowing down as we age is a FACT, and while exercise/lifestyle has an effect on it, it is not the sole determining factor. Only helps to "keep it up..."

Eelbrook, why not drink less but purchase more expensive bottlings? Ahhh...well therein lies 2 dilemmas, my friend. First, that I cannot afford expensive bottlings. I can only afford to purchase one bottle a month, and my budget allows me to spend $80 tops per. And second, it's very hard to drink less! I enjoy scotch immensely, which is what led me to ask if 2-3 drams a night was detrimental to my growth and health? I've only been drinking seriously (as in every night) for the past 2 years now, since I was 22. Of course, I began getting sloshed every weekend since 17 at highschool, and of course more in my fraternity in college, but that was only sporadic binge fests. Plus...I usually puked it all out after-the-fact. I DO NOT PUKE OUT A GOOD SCOTCH!!!

Also, while coffee/tea (aka liquid-caffeine) is a deuretic (sp?), increasing your metabolism and perhaps counteracting the alcoholic effects on your liver (that part I've never heard...), it also dehydrates you, as does alcohol, and for that reason, I prefer to use plain old filtered water as my post-scotch drink and mid-day hydration.

Besides...don't they say the best cure for hangover is to just drink more?

[bamber]

I'm 35 next month and to be honest it has got harder and harder to stay healthy since my mid 20's. I used to compete in kickboxing regularly had had to weigh 65kgs, which would require at least one ampuation to achieve now This is despite exercising around 5 times / week in the gym and trying to eat heathily.

Taking a month of drinking has been a real eye opener to me, and perhaps everyone should try it, because it has been much harder than I thought. There is a real hole in the evening from around 20.30 to 22.30, where I find myself thinking about having a whisky a bit more than I should

I plan to have 3 non drinking nights a week, when I start back at it, and to not read or do anything whisky related, on those nights.

The Good Life is great, but A Good Long Healthy Life would be even better.

[MGillespie]

I think it's more about what one eats and when than what one drinks.

If you eat healthy foods most of the time, get a reasonable amount of exercise, and drink in moderation, you should be OK. Keep in mind that a lot of the body shape you wind up with is also due to genetics...if your father and grandfather had large bellies...the chances are that you may be predisposed to have one as well.

I recently dropped 35 pounds just by cutting the junk food out of my diet and eating more fish and chicken...and still managed to have a couple of drams each week and a couple of beers. I still have some more weight to lose, and to make that happen, I'll have to step up the exercise...

As for taking a month off...I admire the guys like Bamber and Lawrence who can do it. I've gone a couple of weeks without thinking about it...but thinking about it for a month would probably drive me nuts. I may have to try it, though...

Mark

[Lawrence]

Diet and exercise is always the answer and I try to further help my body by limiting the number of drams I have a day. I also take 4 Milk Thistle tablets daily, 2 morning 2 evening and one Phosphatidyl Choline daily to help keep the liver healthy, there is plenty of good information on the internet about these products.

But remember to laugh, it's key (that's one of the reasons I like Tattieheids posts).

[Deactivated Member]

Admiral


After some 39 years of being a 'couch potato', I started going to the gym a few years back. Last April, I did actually go out and run the Paris Marathon. Never say never lol !

[Lawrence]

And another thing, if you can cut out soft drinks (Pepsi etc) and adding suger to coffee or tea then you're doing yourself a huge favour.

[Deactivated Member]

If you continue to drink regularly, you will increase the risk of certain kinds of health problems. That doesn't mean you will necessarily have them, and surely staying otherwise healthy (diet and exercise) will mitigate that risk to some extent. Lawrence's liver regime looks interesting; I think I will look into that. Liver health would be my biggest worry, although I have no current indications of any problem.

Admiral, do I recall that you are still somewhere to the south of 40? Write back in five years and tell me your metabolism hasn't changed! Shortly after turning 40, with no change in lifestyle, I rapidly began to get thick in the middle and thin on top. It doesn't happen to everyone--I have a good friend a year older than I who is both skinny and hairy, the bastard--but it's pretty common.

[BruceCrichton]

Now, I understand life without it's pleasures or vices - bad as they may be - is not a life worth living. Personally, I have about 2-3 drams a night, more on the weekends when I go out to bars or clubs with my friends. The thing is, while they mostly order beers or cocktails (less alcohol content), I only order scotches and occasionally, bourbons.

<Snip>

Is this considered drinking too much? At the moment, I'm 24, 6'0", and I maintain my weight of 138lbs by eating extremely healthy and lifting weights 5 times a week (and have been doing that religiously for the past 8 years). I'm just wondering if, one day, even while maintaining the same rigorous routine, such drinking will adversely affect my health, weight, or even worse - my brain?

I think your workout frequency is gross overtraining. How much progress are you making? Have you weighed 138lbs for 8 years? Has your level of strength remained constant? If so, for how long?

You should never drink straight after training and I never drink on the same day as I have been training with weights.

[Deactivated Member]

Yeah, that's it--you have a working-out problem! I bet you're in denial, too. If your working out starts to interfere with your drinking, you have a serious problem. Consult the California Association of Obsessive Lifters/Iron Lifters Anonymous (CAOL/ILA).

[BruceCrichton]

Good jokes Tattie, but I was being serious.

I only train with weights twice a week and I leave my drinking till the weekend.

There are certain hormones stimulated after exercise and drinking alcohol shorts them out.

[nicholtl]

Well I lift each morning at 10:30AM before I start my day - which consists of sitting in a dark room for 8 hours, writing about imaginary worlds and characters. I have a strict rule imposed upon myself, and that is, to not drink alcohol until past-5PM. Even then, I usually end up drinking at dinner time anyway, which is 7-8PM.

So no, I definitely do not drink immediately after working out! The only thing I drink post-workout are protein shakes. Or non-fat milk.

I also do not feel I'm over-training. That would be if I lifted 7 times a week. And that would also be if I hit the same body parts consecutively. Neither of which I do. Conversely, exercising only twice a week - while better than nothing at all - could still be improved upon. At least 3 times a week is generally the recommended "dosage."

[BruceCrichton]

I also do not feel I'm over-training. That would be if I lifted 7 times a week. And that would also be if I hit the same body parts consecutively. Neither of which I do.

How do you measure your progress?

Conversely, exercising only twice a week - while better than nothing at all - could still be improved upon. At least 3 times a week is generally the recommended "dosage."

It is generally recommended. It is also a load of rubbish. I think we should continue this discussion by private message as I don't think exercise is a topic that should be discussed in the main section of a whisky discussion forum.

[Paul A Jellis]

The only 'lifting' I do is a bottle!

A good healthy, well-balanced diet is the best way to keep trim. If you eat loads of fat you will become fat! I gave up drinking beer years ago because the weight was piling on, I've had no weight problems with whisky.

I don't believe that malt drinkers are at risk from their favourite tipple, a little and often is my motto. I very rarely feel that I've over indulged, I've too much respect for the product to gulp it down in great quantities.

But, long-term, does it affect your brain? Reading some of the posts on here I can only conclude - yes it does rot your brain!

Cheers

Paul

[hpulley]

I gave up smoking ten years ago because I got asthma and couldn't sleep lying down with all the fluid in my lungs. I enjoyed smoking before that but I don't miss it anymore. It now seems like nothing other than a disgusting habit and a waste of money. Before I quit I didn't think of it that way, of course.

I really enjoy drinking whisky, usually having 1-2 a night with a night or two off each week. This doesn't seem excessive to me. I don't take planned time off, though usually I get a few bouts of nasty bugs requiring antibiotics which takes me off whisky for a few weeks as the effectively really goes down when drinking, I find. I suspect my immune system is suppressed a bit by drinking but what can you do? Quit I suppose.

My weight is down a bit but honestly I have to wonder how a 6' individual is worried about 138lb weight! I can't imagine being that light and weighed more when I was 12 years old. I am finally able to keep my weight under 200lbs and am not quite 5'11" tall. I did that buy cutting out some junk food and eating 1-3 salads and 2-5 fruits a day, no magic pills or hours of workouts. I don't know where I'd find another 60 lbs to remove, I honestly don't! Chop off my legs, I guess. People are built differently but I am stocky, always have been.

Do I worry about my liver? Not really. If it catches up with me, it catches up with me.

Do I worry about mouth and esophogeal cancer after a decade of smoking and two decades of drinking? A bit but I have to live and enjoy my life. If my doctor says I have to quit drinking and eating any butter or margerine or french fries or red meat I'll say, "I'd rather enjoy a shorter life than be depressed for a longer period!"

If I find myself in a situation with my whisky like I did with my smoking then I'm sure I can quit drinking and will eventually see it for what it probably is, an expensive, frivolous habit. For now I'm really enjoying it, so cheers

Harry

[JWFokker]

Consider though, that if you improve your diet, you'll feel better overall. While I enjoy steak tremendously, I'd eat it every night if I could, I do recognize that having a healthier diet is important.

There are two ways to lose weight. Consume fewer calories or burn more by doing more.

[Deactivated Member]

Good jokes Tattie, but I was being serious.

No intent to belittle or undercut your point, Bruce--just being silly. Sorry, I've a bit too much so lately. Feel free to ignore me!

[nicholtl]

My weight is down a bit but honestly I have to wonder how a 6' individual is worried about 138lb weight! I can't imagine being that light and weighed more when I was 12 years old. I am finally able to keep my weight under 200lbs and am not quite 5'11" tall. I did that buy cutting out some junk food and eating 1-3 salads and 2-5 fruits a day, no magic pills or hours of workouts...

True, at my current size and weight, I probably don't need to worry too much. However, they always say "start young," and by building good habits now, it'll serve me well for life. I'll be honest. As narcissistic or vain as it may sound (and be), I like to stay really lean and "cut" to be physically attractive to potential "mates." In other words, I like to look good for the ladies. And it's also nice that by being in-shape, you can essentially wear anything and look good. I'm sorry if it sounds immature, but you've gotta admit, it was/is important to everyone at some point in time...

(I'm just trying to find the right balance between drinking and enjoying good whiskies, and maintaining the six-pack... The abdominal variety, not the Pabst Blue Ribbon kind...)

Do I worry about mouth and esophogeal cancer after a decade of smoking and two decades of drinking? A bit but I have to live and enjoy my life. If my doctor says I have to quit drinking and eating any butter or margerine or french fries or red meat I'll say, "I'd rather enjoy a shorter life than be depressed for a longer period!"

Great advice. I take those words to heart.

[Admiral]

True, Mr T, I am still south of 40, but I'm well north of 25, and I can tell you that I've noticed some significant changes since then!

Whilst I'm still very active (squash three times a week, plus jogging, etc), I'm not as active as I was when I was 25. I'm also drinking considerably more since I was back then.

I'm now married with two young kids, and I just don't have the "get up and go" that I used to. (My "get up and go" got up and went).

Referring back to my original post, I've simply changed the balance of the parameters in my life.....exercise versus alcohol versus diet versus rest versus metabolism versus etc, etc.

If I'm struggling at 32, imagine how tough I'll find it at 40!!

**********

Eelbrook - well done on the marathon!! Great work! But - as you say - you didn't get up off the couch and tackle the marathon over night, did you? You had to work up to it, yes!


Cheers,
Admiral

[hpulley]

My weight is down a bit but honestly I have to wonder how a 6' individual is worried about 138lb weight! I can't imagine being that light and weighed more when I was 12 years old. I am finally able to keep my weight under 200lbs and am not quite 5'11" tall. I did that buy cutting out some junk food and eating 1-3 salads and 2-5 fruits a day, no magic pills or hours of workouts...

True, at my current size and weight, I probably don't need to worry too much. However, they always say "start young," and by building good habits now, it'll serve me well for life. I'll be honest. As narcissistic or vain as it may sound (and be), I like to stay really lean and "cut" to be physically attractive to potential "mates." In other words, I like to look good for the ladies. And it's also nice that by being in-shape, you can essentially wear anything and look good. I'm sorry if it sounds immature, but you've gotta admit, it was/is important to everyone at some point in time...

[/quote]

I still like to look good and don't think I look bad at the moment, just more of a rugby physique than a marathon runner Married for 10 years with two kids it isn't as important to attract the mates right now though. Haven't hit the mid-life crisis yet

Admiral: how old are your children again? Mine are 10 months and 4.5 years and I find they run me ragged! I don't have time for much in the way of exercise on my own but I burn a lot of energy just keeping up with them.

Harry

[Admiral]

Harry,

20 months and 5 months respectively. The 5 month one isn't sleeping through the night yet, so it's the sleep deprivation that's wearing me down!

(Maybe I should give her a wee dram of Glenfarclas before putting her to bed? )

Cheers,
Admiral

[hpulley]

Once they hit the age where they want to play sports and stuff outside you'll get your exercise. My 4.5 year old son likes me to canoe, swim, ride bikes, play hockey, football, and other sports with him. It's all stuff I hadn't done for years myself, some since I was a kid myself. I've been impatient myself, wishing he'd grow up faster to do all this sort of stuff but you can't push them, they have to want to do it on their own.

One day we'll be able to raise a glass together.... a few years yet though

Harry

[nicholtl]

Ah yes... It was indeed a magical moment the first time my brother - my elder by 2 years 2 months 2 days and 2 hours - my dad, and I raised a glass of scotch together to make a toast to my turning 21.

Of course, I had been drinking plenty before that (mostly cheap beer), but the fact that it was now legal, made it extra cool.

[emondhavi]

I lost 15 lbs after the following change in my diet:

Stopped eating dinner late at night, and replaced my nightly Mojitos with several shots of Whisky and snacks like smoked salmon, olives, cheese and peanuts. I also started running 6 miles twice a week.

However, this change came about as a result of my doctor's warning, after a Physical, that I was on the verge of Diabetes. When I objected to stopping the Mojitos she said - "Too much sugar - drink straight vodka instead". I had been drinking Macallan for a few years, I always had a bottle at home, so I started expanding my single malt consumption instead of drinking "Vodka", as she advised.

Since then I've been reading a lot about this and one of the things I found is that the American Diabetes Association considers "moderate drinking" somewhat beneficial, however, they define "moderate drinking" as no more than TWO DRINKS A DAY.

One drink is defined as:
1 and 1/2 OZ of spirits.
One 5 OZ glass of wine
One 12 OZ beer

More than those two drinks a day is considered excessive drinking and eventually harmful. This guidelines are not recommended just for diabetics, but for general good health, the FDA recommends them too.

Needless to say I've decided to ignore the drinking part and concentrate on my diet instead. On the physical my doctor also found that my liver was showing "signs of damage" - whatever that means. I've drunk for years, more or less regularly, going through several exploration phases of everything from beer to spirits.

My weight at the time of the first physical was over the ideal, but not enough to concern me for reasons other than aesthetics. I didn't set out to lose weight by changing my diet, I was just trying to ward off Diabetes. The weight was just a nice site-effect. I'm now at my ideal weight, and I drink 3 to 6 shots of whisky every night.

I'm 49 years old.

emondhavi

[hpulley]

How does a doctor detect liver damage during a physical? Or was blood work done as well?

Harry

[Deactivated Member]

If you have liver damage and are drinking 3-6 shots of whisky a night then you are likely to be doing yourself serious harm. Liver damage caused by alcohol does not repair itself.

[Deactivated Member]

Admiral: how old are your children again? Mine are 10 months and 4.5 years and I find they run me ragged! I don't have time for much in the way of exercise on my own but I burn a lot of energy just keeping up with them.

Harry

It's no wonder the kids run you ragged, Harry. They have mechanical advantage: two Pulleys against one!

[hpulley]

Admiral: how old are your children again? Mine are 10 months and 4.5 years and I find they run me ragged! I don't have time for much in the way of exercise on my own but I burn a lot of energy just keeping up with them.

Harry

It's no wonder the kids run you ragged, Harry. They have mechanical advantage: two Pulleys against one!

Only in the right configuration

I was taking care of my wife's cousin's kids on Sunday as well while the two of them went shopping. Outnumbered four to one, not fun... Needed whisky after that!

Harry

[nicholtl]

Needless to say I've decided to ignore the drinking part and concentrate on my diet instead...
emondhavi

Hehe, gotta live a little, right?