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The Ardbeg 17YO Con?

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Related whiskies : Ardbeg 17 Years Old

The Ardbeg 17YO Con?

Postby H2SiF6 » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:18 pm

As mild panic set in within the Ardbeg 17YO-lover community, many bought up what they could in the fear that supplies were extinguished. Indeed, like the superb ‘Lord of the Isles’, 17 YO dropped off the Ardbeg website for a while. From that moment, 17YO Ardbeg was seen as a ‘rare’ whisky; a whisky to be snapped up in order to avoid missing the boat. Now it appears that, “whilst rummaging in his cupboard, the Chairman (of Ardbeg) recently uncovered his ‘misplaced’ stocks of Ardbeg 17 Years Old.” (see Ardgeb web site).

Are we the customer being conned here? Are we really expected to believe that the chairman of Ardbeg is so incompetent that he misplaces significant quantities of a globally recognised much-in-demand product only to accidentally find it again?

My question is, is this a cheap marketing ploy (to induce mass buying) or does one :x really have to “replenish your own ‘misplaced’ (i.e. consumed) stocks of Ardbeg 17 Years Old” as stock are still low and will dry up altogether in the near future?
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Postby kallaskander » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:23 pm

Hi there,

well, the story sounds like something marketing would invent. It does sound more romantic and nicer then saying "Yes we ran out of our own stock of old Ardbeg and manged to buy back casks from independent bottlers. Now we can offer Ardbeg 17 again."

I would be prepared to believe that there is no fraud or, as you put it more mildly and carefully, conning is going on.
Doubt is alright if there is cause for sufficient strong suspicion but I would say here there is not really a need for paranoia, don´t you too? 8)

Greetings
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Postby Lawrence » Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:55 pm

If this is the final lot it would be nice if they didn't chill filter it. Marketing or whatever it's nice to see another lot pop onto the market.
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Postby hpulley » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:24 pm

Did they find another cask (or more) or another case (or more)? Since they've put some in their collection of minis it seems like it must be a cask, though there's nothing stopping them from pouring larger bottles into minis.

Harry
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Postby lambda » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:28 pm

If it would be a cask, then the age statement doesn't make sense taking into account that Ardbeg was closed most of the time during the 80s.

So they either had some steel container or it must have been bottled already I'd say.
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Postby Spirit of Islay » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:58 pm

The way i was told , it's some stock returns from Italy .
In the past they've had Provenance returned from America (do yanks have no taste at all ! :lol: :wink: ) . I prefer the “whilst rummaging in his cupboard, the Chairman recently uncovered his ‘misplaced’ stocks of Ardbeg 17 Years Old.” Line , next time i'm over i'm going to ask Stuart if i can inspect his cupboards !!!!!
Certainly isn't a con , why do people always see the worst instead of celebrating the joy of having more old Ardbeg at hand even if slightly more expensive........

Slainté
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:17 am

Spirit of Islay wrote:The way i was told , it's some stock returns from Italy .
In the past they've had Provenance returned from America (do yanks have no taste at all ! :lol: :wink: )


Yes, unsold Italian stock is what we were told, also. I think H2SiF6 is bucking to replace the amazing Revilo as house cynic. Really, what's the point? (We welcome you anyway, H.)

Gordon, it's the wallet I don't have...perhaps we Americans are not as rich as everyone else seems to believe!
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Postby kallaskander » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:58 am

Hi there,

ever curious I just had to look it up.

Definition: h2sif6


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Silicofluoric \Sil`i*co*flu*or"ic\, a. (Chem.)
Containing, or composed of, silicon and fluorine; especially,
denoting the compounds called silicofluorides.

Silicofluoric acid (Chem.), a compound of hydrofluoric acid
and silicon fluoride, known only in watery solution. It is
produced by the action of silicon fluoride on water, and
is regarded as an acid, H2SiF6, and the type and origin
of the silicofluorides.

Welcome to the forum, my acidic friend :wink:

Greetings
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Postby H2SiF6 » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:58 pm

Cynic? Stick and stones Mr TattieHeid; sticks and stones... Instead of the 'tag' I'd have settled with your first sentence - which was very helpful (thank you).

So, with 4 bottles of 17 YO in the whisky cabinet, I'd like your recommendations - drink or conserve? Will the prized 17 YO run out (again) after the Italian stock is depleted, or will there always be a 17 YO Ardbeg available?

Kallaskander - well spotted. Very close indeed (6/10).
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Postby hpulley » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:01 pm

Could there be more squared away in a warehouse somewhere? Sure. But conserve or consume? I am a consumer, not a collector and I don't understand the collection of a consumable but that's just me... you'll get different answers depending on from whom the answer comes.

Harry
Last edited by hpulley on Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby H2SiF6 » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:11 pm

Thanks Harry, I love the stuff but I just don't want to be kicking myself in 20 years from now knowing that I had 4 unopened bottles in the cabinet.
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Postby hpulley » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:14 pm

Do I wish I had more? Yes but I probably would be through them by now or soon. As it is I'm enjoying new bottlings of Ardbeg and hopefully there will always be those.

Harry
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Postby bamber » Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:36 pm

I thought they were just kidding and assumed they'd just been holding some back as a little treat for us all.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:51 pm

No offense meant, H! But when your first post here is titled "The Ardbeg 17YO Con?", you do sound just a tad cynical. Not like wide-eyed innocent me! :P

Ardbeg's explanation seems reasonable to me, so I'm inclined to take it at face value. I'd say if you particularly like Ardbeg 17, yes, stock up. Favored expressions come and go, and even standard bottlings change over time, so I'd say enjoy what you have while you have it, don't expect anything to last forever, and have faith that something else interesting will come along even as others are lost. That's life.

Suspect your handle has something to do with water fluoridation, but I'm not sure I want to go there.
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Postby rthomson » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:16 am

Yes, we were told it was stock returned from Italy. The price for a bottle was reasonable so I wasn't particularly concerned about the veracity of the story. It certainly is possible. Now, if they had jacked the price way up then I might have questioned the reasons behind the sudden reappearance.

Ron
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:51 am

Doesn't really matter where it came from as long as it is a true Ardbeg. Since it was only available from Ardbeg, unless a "Macallan" has taken place, I'm haoppy with what I've got. Is it a con? Nah. What separates whisky from all others is the romanticism that goes hand in hand and the canny Scot image of "just finding a couple of wee drams under the desk" is something I can live with.

Kallaskander - I too was curious:-

The product is used by water companies solely for the purpose of drinking water fluoridation schemes.

H2SiF6 is a highly toxic, Class 8 Corrosive substance requiring that it be shipped in specially lined tanks or unbreakable plastic drums.

Vehicles carrying H2SiF6 are required to have an identifying signage with the number ‘8’ visible. Generally, the sign will be diamond shaped.

IN CASE OF A SPILL OR LEAK
Emergency Action: Keep unnecessary people away. Stay about 300 meters upwind, keep out of low areas. Isolate hazard area and deny entry.

Upon contact with most substances, H2SiF6 can generate corrosive and toxic gaseous fluoride vapours. Its potential impact on human health is severe and demands urgent consideration with regard to emergency response in the event of an accident.

H2SiF6 reacts with many metals to produce flammable and explosive hydrogen gas.

H2SiF6 liquid or vapours can cause severe irritation and burns which may not be apparent for hours.

H2SiF6 vapours are extremely destructive to the tissue
of the mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract, eyes and skin. Inhalation of vapours may result in spasm, inflammation and oedema of the larynx and bronchi, chemical pneumonitis and pulmonary oedema.

Symptoms of exposure to H2SiF6 or its vapours may include burning sensation, coughing, wheezing, laryngitis, shortness of breath, headache, nausea and vomiting.

Symptoms may be delayed up to 24 hours


Some handle!! :shock:
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Postby H2SiF6 » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:01 pm

No need to apologise - looking back I guess it did come across as somewhat cynical. It's just that, last month, I attended the International Whisky Festival at Leiden in the Netherlands. The Ardbeg reps (who were out in force) assured me that 17 YO was no more. I pointed out that 'newly found stocks' were being sold on their very own website. They didn’t seem to know about it.

I have the same questions about Ardbeg ‘Lord of the Isles’ but will probably put this to the guys on the Collector’s Forum.

By the way - well done concerning the chemical formula :D
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Postby hpulley » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:13 pm

Whisky show reps can be totally unaware. Marketing reps everywhere can be. Sales forces are told what to sell and will not be told to push products on sale in Scotland when they are doing their work in Scandinavia. They don't want people waiting for next year's product or travelling aboard to buy something else: they want you to buy what's in the whisky store or the showroom or whatever it is they're plugging. Product people don't want marketing and sales to sell products that don't exist yet.

It's a fine line they walk between carefully coordinated marketing campaigns and dishonesty but it's the way business works. When talking to customers, you have to be careful. Some have that skill, and others don't and blab stuff they shouldn't; this makes them popular with enthusiasts but not with head office and they will find themselves on the other side very quickly.

Harry
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Postby UF6 » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:16 pm

For Crieftan: Even though I agree that it doesn't read as an essential nutrient (as we are told), be careful of quoting MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets). You may have Mr MrTattieHeid contacting his water company and reading the small print on his US toothpaste tube (which contains NaF - and a poison warning) then reading the similarly disturbing MSDS for Sodium Fluoride.

For H2SiF6: Am I correct in assuming that you refuse to cut your whisky with fluoridated water as you wish your dram to be as pure as possible? 8)
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Postby H2SiF6 » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:21 pm

Spot on UF6! As pure as possible baby! (I don't think Scottish water is fluoridated) :D
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Postby Spirit of Islay » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:48 pm

The first question i would ask is who exactly were these reps working for ?
A) Ardbeg ( Glenmorangie , LVMH etc etc ) ?
B) The Importers for Ardbeg ?

If it's (A) unless it's someone directly from the distillery or the Good Hamish Torrie , i would take what they say with a pinch of salt !
When attending the 2004 Whisky Fringe , the Glenmorangie table only had the Oogie on offer , on asking why they didn't have the just released 1990 Japanese/distillery only release they didn't know about it ! Or the then Festival release .....
If it's (B) i can only agree with Harrys statement ......

I think the one thing a lot of people have got to get their heads around about Ardbeg is that for a fully operation, established distillery they are in a strange position regarding old stock i.e. there isn't much of it ! And it's rapidly disappearing ! If it had been operating between 1981 and 89 (still think the 1988 bottles on e-bay are a bit dodgy ) i don't think we would be that concerned or paying premium prices for what old stock there is .

Make the most of what 17yo and LOTI is available cos it's only goona get worse until the Glenmo stuff reaches a decent age but i'm sure it'll be worth the wait !

Slainté
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:25 am

Crieftan wrote:IN CASE OF A SPILL OR LEAK
Emergency Action: Keep unnecessary people away.


Always good advice in any case!
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Postby mar_mcdo » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:34 pm

i would at least keep one fo them. i was under the impression that they got some stocks back when moet bought over glenmorangie PLC. dont think there will be much more for them to 'find'.
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Postby H2SiF6 » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:18 am

Thanks everyone - I now have all the info I need.
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Postby Ed » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:57 pm

Hello All,
I saw a bottle of Ardbeg 17 in my favorite discount the other day. I had already spent my monthly budget and some and was there to spend yet more for something I needed to replace, Elijah Craig 12 yo. It was a little more that 5,000 yen only 1,000 yen more than the ten year old. At today's exchange rate it is just a fraction over US $40. Am I correct in thinking this is a steal? Maybe I had better throw my budget to the winds and go back and snap it up.
Ed
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Postby jimidrammer » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:47 pm

Ed wrote:Hello All,
I saw a bottle of Ardbeg 17 in my favorite discount the other day. I had already spent my monthly budget and some and was there to spend yet more for something I needed to replace, Elijah Craig 12 yo. It was a little more that 5,000 yen only 1,000 yen more than the ten year old. At today's exchange rate it is just a fraction over US $40. Am I correct in thinking this is a steal? Maybe I had better throw my budget to the winds and go back and snap it up.
Ed


Ed, that is certainly a steal. The 3 bottles I've been able to find cost me (2 @ $69US and 1 @ $78US), but the ardbeg 10 varies from $45US - $58US, so you're getting a bargain there, too. As reference the Elijah Craig 12 is $19US.
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