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Problems with ebay

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Problems with ebay

Postby adogranonthepitch » Mon May 29, 2006 8:17 pm

ebay have been removing whisky for months from ebay.co.uk. To start with with, it became a bit of fun to see if your bottle got removed.

However, the more I speak with fellow whisky anoracks, tey are becoming more and ruthless in their approach.

There are rules which ebay sellers must adher to. The usual papagraphs.. though shall not sell to under 18's, its the bottle not the contents, not available in the shops etc.....

More and more, ebay sellers dont mention the alcoholic content etc, and more and more, bottles get removed.

Questions......

1. Is this a problem that only affects ebay.co.uk, or does it affect our German, French, Dutch etc sites?

2. Why do people follow the rules set down by ebay, and still bottles get removed?

3. Why do ebay simply remove bottles without asking questions of the seller.

4. Some people have said other ebayers report listings to aid the sale of theire bottles. Does anyone have any proof or able to make comments anonminiously?

5. How many of you have affected? Can we get together and petition ebay?

Come on ebay, what is the score?

Your comments are appreciated.

Christopher
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Mon May 29, 2006 8:40 pm

Yes it is quite annoying as I in the process of buying a bottle lately but it was pulled. I would imagine that it is Just Ebay UK as it does not seem to affect any other European. I think they are legally allowed to sell alcohol to be drunk on Ebay never mind stating it is a collectable.

I would imagine that people may complain about these being sold on Ebay as there would be a lot of kids surfing Ebay too. However I would not go with the thinking that people are doing it to boost their own sales. The reason I say this is because the bottle I was bidding on there was no other like it on Ebay at the time. Just a guess though. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Postby Jan » Mon May 29, 2006 8:51 pm

Hi Christopher

This has been discussed recently; I think it was Whiskyhammer, who explained it very nicely:
Collectable bottle puzzle

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Postby Lawrence » Tue May 30, 2006 5:52 am

I've seen bottles pulled from ebay.com for the most minor 'infractions', most I suspect simply cya on the part of ebay. Happily I made a deal with one of the sellers and picked up a rare bottle off ebay.

Ebay lost the commission! :twisted:
Last edited by Lawrence on Wed May 31, 2006 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Tue May 30, 2006 11:54 pm

This is not ebay being mean or arbitrary. It is illegal for them to facilitate the sale of alcohol in certain jurisdictions. I think I said this before--as long as they can pretend to believe you are selling a collectible bottle, they will be happy to leave you alone. They want happy sellers and buyers. But when something is called to their attention, they have no choice but to pull the item--they can be held liable and fined, I'm sure.
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Postby Lawrence » Wed May 31, 2006 7:08 am

Most jurisdictions allow for individuals to sell up to a certain amount of bottles a year without any need for a license. The UK limit is 6 bottles and I think if ebay were to examine individual countires they would reach the same conclusion. But it's simpler to pull auctions.
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Postby Spirit of Islay » Wed May 31, 2006 9:42 am

Lawrence wrote:Most jurisdictions allow for individuals to sell up to a certain amount of bottles a year without any need for a license. The UK limit is 6 bottles and I think if ebay were to examine individual countires they would reach the same conclusion. But it's simpler to pull auctions.

Hi Lawrence ,
Personally i thought in the UK you had to have a license to sell alcohol anywhere full stop not so many bottles then a license ?
Again personally i'll be glad to see an end to selling on e-bay , hopefully it'll give the people who DRINK whisky a chance to buy it at the point of sale instead of the profiteers who snap it all up to flog on e-bay a few days later and yes i know all the arguements
"I'm living in the past , get into the real world...."
"i buy 2 , one to drink and 1 to pay for the 2 of them....... "
"It finance other buying by doing this...."
Etc , Etc , Etc .......

Slainté
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Postby Mr Ellen » Wed May 31, 2006 10:26 am

Spirit of Islay wrote:Again personally i'll be glad to see an end to selling on e-bay , hopefully it'll give the people who DRINK whisky a chance to buy it at the point of sale instead of the profiteers who snap it all up to flog on e-bay a few days later and yes i know all the arguements


I don't agree.
For me, living in Sweden where the prices on alcohol are sky high, eBay offers the chance to buy whisky at very affordable prices (specially from Germany). I know there are a large number of speculators only after a quick outturn on their offerings but if you can avoid them it's a great marketplace for whisky. Most of the dealers I've been in touch with are very serious and offer great whiskies at great prices.

For example I just bought a 1978 Rare Malts Convalmore at EUR68.50 and a Rare Malts Banff 1982 at EUR72.00. Normal prices are EUR100.00 and 115.00 respectively.

However, I do fully agree that those who only want to make a profit out of the bottlings belong elsewhere.
I just saw a couple of Young Uigeadail at eBay Germany...offered by speculators out for a quick outturn. :evil:

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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Wed May 31, 2006 11:53 am

I'm in the same boat... whiskey is very expensive in Ireland too especially the more exotic stuff. So ebay is in some cases the only place I can get this stuff at reasonable prices (Irish Comparable) even with people profiteering. Fair play to people trying to make a few euro by being on the ball. Remember it's all about a free market and that is what regular whisky sales is based on. If you don't have that then you will have less of a choice in the long run.

Further Limited runs will only be available to a certian demographic so to me these ebay sellers are offering the rest of us a very important service.
Last edited by irishwhiskeychaser on Wed May 31, 2006 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lawrence » Wed May 31, 2006 3:57 pm

SoI, I learned of the UK 6 bottle rule during the Laphroaig 30 fiasco a few years ago. It makes sense that individuals can pass on a bottle here and there other wise if somebody picked up a bottle for a friend and was paid back they'd be in violation of the law.
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Postby Lawrence » Wed May 31, 2006 4:00 pm

Also I have to say that I've bought some interesting bottles off of ebay and if the seller had not listed them it is doubtful I would ever have seen them again. You just have to avoid the high end fakes which I'm not shoppog for in any case.
Last edited by Lawrence on Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:15 am

A bottle of whisky, like any other commodity, is worth what people are willing to pay for it. If a particular bottling is underpriced in the marketplace, it will be snapped up very quickly, and the true market value set in the black market. This is obviously the case with Oogling. Ideally it would originally have been priced at a level where it would take long enough to sell out for anyone who really wanted one to get one. Then we'd all complain about Ardbeg setting the price so high.

It is the demand on limited supply that sets the price, and we are the source of that demand.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:00 am

Speaking of Ardbeg, I don't know if anyone here bought one, but that Festival bottling was priced at 299 GBP at the festival.
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Postby Lawrence » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

It seems they are begining to behave like Macallan......
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:45 pm

If they are beginning to behave like Macallan, it's because we the consumers are starting to cultify them the same way. Why on earth shouldn't they charge what the traffic will bear? If they don't, speculators will buy the stuff up and will do so, and you and I will pay the same (with much more effort involved), and the speculators will make the difference instead of Ardbeg. If it's too rich for you (and £299 certainly is for me), then don't buy it. That's how the marketplace works. If it's underpriced in the marketplace, chances are you won't be able to get it, anyway.

Oh, but it's not fair, Mr Tattie Heid! Well, nothing is. It certainly isn't fair that I didn't hit the lottery last week.
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Postby Jan » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:59 pm

... and 70's Ardbeg is a rapidly dwindling "resource" and are now becoming very scarce as far as I know. (Seems to recall reading somewhere, that they are down to a few casks...)

It will be some years before they again will have sufficient stock of old Ardbeg... in the meantime I certainly won't blame them for selling their precious whisky for whatever they can get for it.

Cheers
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Postby TheLiquorBaron » Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:02 am

There has been much talk recently of eBay and selling alcohol and having these items removed...
Basicly eBay themselves don't see the initial listings, they are repoted by the members of eBay and then eBay removes them. Generally if the item doesn't get reported it won't be removed.

Rules pertaining to the sale of alcohol...
Technically it is ILLEGAL to sell alcohol without a license FULL STOP!!
This includes 'Collectible' bottles. Basicly the term 'collectible bottle' has been manufactured through eBay.
There are 'exceptions' to the law...if you were to sell a bottle to a friend or such this is ok, however you must NOT advertise the fact that you are selling the bottle. This is were the law has become somewhat blurred...basicly if the licensing commisions wanted to, they could prosecute any person selling alcohol on eBay if they don't have a license.
Once you advertise to the general public the sale of an item, the transaction is somewhat regarded as a commercial transaction and hence certain laws and regulations come into effect.

Personally I would like to see the sale of alcohol not banned but possible changes made to avoid(or at least help to avoid), such things as profiterring and fraud.
Such sites as The Whisky Auction & WhiskyBay are fantastic as they are dedicated sites and at least fradulant activities are more avoided there along with underage buyers/sellers.
Members here have made some relevant comments relating to the access they now have to some particular bottles...I concur with this totally!! Had I not found eBay...I would have never had the chance to get some of the bottles that I now have in my possesion, let alone known of their existance.
All in all eBay isn't too bad a site for buying/selling 'collectibles'...there is always going to be the small minority that ruins things for the majority - has happened since the dawn of time.....
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Postby Lawrence » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:33 am

BarItems said
Technically it is ILLEGAL to sell alcohol without a license FULL STOP!!


That's simply not true. It may be true in Australia but it does not apply to EVERYWHERE in the world.

ebay's policy arouse from when they were primarily selling beanie babies in the US market and they didn't want to run afoul of the myriad of alcohol laws that prevail in the US.

Even if some one has a license ebay will still pull their product. Generally they do nothing, raking in the commissions, unless somebody alerts them. You are dreaming if you think ebay couldn't stop every sale of alcohol (whisky, whiskey, wine, etc, etc) if they decided to.
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Postby TheLiquorBaron » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:12 am

That's simply not true


Lawrence I am quite certain in the fact that if you do not have a license to sell alcohol, you can not sell it.

Referring to my previous statement.....
if you were to sell a bottle to a friend or such this is ok, however you must NOT advertise the fact that you are selling the bottle


Once you advertise to the general public you are selling alcohol you are in actual fact doing a commercial transaction! Thus you are then held in accordance with all applicable laws.

You are dreaming if you think ebay couldn't stop every sale of alcohol

I didn't say this.
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Postby TheLiquorBaron » Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:18 am

Just something I was thinking about...
eBay isn't as such 'the general public' as you have to sign up/register to become part of their Group!
??????
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Postby Lawrence » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:25 pm

I am quite certain in the fact that if you do not have a license to sell


I'm quite certain that this is not true, in all circumstances. In the UK you can sell 6 bottles a year without a license. After 6 you need a license but below that you don't and other countries make similar provisions.
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Postby Aidan » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:53 pm

It's obviously different from country - this could hardly be described as for collectors - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ardbeg-single-mal ... dZViewItem
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Postby PuckJunkie » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:34 pm

Aidan wrote:It's obviously different from country - this could hardly be described as for collectors - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ardbeg-single-mal ... dZViewItem


Hey, that's closer to being a collector's item than this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Macallan-Single-Mal ... dZViewItem

These are two of the easiest single malts to find in the U.S.! No question this sale doesn't honestly meet the criteria set by eBay. I also saw another auction for Aberlour 10, and one for Highland Park 18, both easily found in any decent store here.

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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:04 pm

I can only speak for Germany, but there is no rule here about only being allowed to sell collectibles when it comes to alcohol.

I reiterate my earlier comments that the UK laws on selling alcohol are antiquated and extremely restrictive. Hence you are only allowed to sell collectible bottles which may just happen to contain alcohol.
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Postby lbacha » Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:54 pm

If you really want to talk about restriction lets look at certain states in the United States. I live in Ohio which only has state run liquor stores. To sell a product in the state of Ohio it needs to be on their approved list. This translates into a very poor selection. The topper to this is that the state has made it illegal for a citizen of Ohio to have Spirits mailed into the state so I can't even order online. They have recently loosen their reign and allowed wine to be imported into the state but absolutly no spirits.


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Postby PuckJunkie » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:42 pm

lbacha wrote:If you really want to talk about restriction lets look at certain states in the United States. I live in Ohio which only has state run liquor stores. To sell a product in the state of Ohio it needs to be on their approved list. This translates into a very poor selection. The topper to this is that the state has made it illegal for a citizen of Ohio to have Spirits mailed into the state so I can't even order online. They have recently loosen their reign and allowed wine to be imported into the state but absolutly no spirits.


Len


It used to be similarly restrictive in Texas, but right now I'm not sure of the law. I sent a message to the state board but haven't gotten a reply yet. They recently lifted restrictions on wine, now you can buy wine direct from domestic vineyards or retailers (but not distributors or wholesalers) and have it shipped direct to you in Texas. But the new rules don't apply to non-US companies. And they're specifically written for wine, so I think liquor sales are still a mess. Aaaarrrggghh.

But at least our liquor stores are privately run. Pretty decent selection locally, really.

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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:57 am

I got an email lately from Ebay in germany saying that they were deleting a listing which I was bidding on. Nothing strange there only that I had bought the item and recieved it in the post LAST year :shock:

Now this is the second time that I've gotten a withdrawl mail on a listing which I had long recieved.

This leads me to think that Ebay are going through their database systematically and deleting alcohol listings that do not meet their criteria. Strangely I bought some Macallan from a big seller who was basically an online retailer.

I really don't know what's going on :!: :?: :!:
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Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:31 pm

Bar Items wrote:Rules pertaining to the sale of alcohol...
Technically it is ILLEGAL to sell alcohol without a license FULL STOP!!

Such sites as The Whisky Auction & WhiskyBay are fantastic as they are dedicated sites and at least fradulant activities are more avoided there along with underage buyers/sellers.
.....


I do not agree that this is ILLEGAL in every country!
Maybe Australia?
Certainly the UK.

Another equally fantastic site is WhiskyHammer!
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:30 am

BEWARE!!!

Here is another problem, this time the problem is that Ebay seem to refuse to remove a scam!

Here is what I and quite a few others, believe to be a slightly less than genuine auction:
7249445964

Here is what I and quite a few others, believe to be a genuine auction:
7248676264

The first one has been repeatedly reported, but it still stands!
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:36 am

The offending auction has just been removed.
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Postby Aidan » Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:43 pm

What was the auction for?
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:03 pm

The second one should still be there!

It is an Ardbeg Provenance from a German seller.
The removed auction was from a new user, zero feedback and the same bottle, same picture, same bottle number ........!

This is now the third time I have seen this happen in Ebay Germany over the last 3-4 weeks.
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:26 am

SO basically you are saying that there are people robbing details from other listings and hoping to take money off some poor unsuspecting malt maniac :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Postby parvus » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:24 am

Thankfully there are people out there like WH/MT who keep an eye on such shady practices. I really hope no one has been burnt on a bottle as potentially expensive as the Provenance, the idea of buying something like that and having it turn out to be fake makes my sternum ache.
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:57 am

I would go as far as to say you would not even get a fake but nothing at all.

I've had only one dealing with a real dodgey charachter and when I went back to him to say I never recieved the item he just said that he posted it and that was that according to him. But it turned out that loads of people were reporting the same thing and he was struck off within the week. Luckily it was not an expensive but when you have over 20 people who have paid for an item and postage he probably cleared £100 for nothing.
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