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Ardbeg 1965 OB

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Ardbeg 1965 OB

Postby MacLover » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:07 pm

I am not sure if this was discussed in a diffrent thread, but I was wondering if anyine knew anything about this bottle. I heard it would be released very soon and is approx 40YO, with a 2800euro price tag.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Thanks!
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:26 pm

With that price tag I'd prefer it to stay in the dark.... No whiskey is worth that... and if Ardbeg are behind it my estimation of the company has fallen. If they get 107 bottles from it that is circa 300,000 Euro for one cask. I actually think that is a criminal price to ask for a new bottling. Ardbeg are going to shoot themselves in the foot if they start believing the hype that is behind their bottlings at the moment. It can only end in tears.... :cry:
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Postby parvus » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:57 am

irishwhiskeychaser wrote:With that price tag I'd prefer it to stay in the dark.... No whiskey is worth that... and if Ardbeg are behind it my estimation of the company has fallen. If they get 107 bottles from it that is circa 300,000 Euro for one cask. I actually think that is a criminal price to ask for a new bottling. Ardbeg are going to shoot themselves in the foot if they start believing the hype that is behind their bottlings at the moment. It can only end in tears.... :cry:


With that price tag 90% of people who drink whisky are going to avoid it, but to say that Ardbeg are going to shoot themselves in the foot for charging that much for something that old is a little....dramatic.

Yes it is a horrific price, and i'll never so much as consider spending that much on a bottle of booze, it's a case of supply and demand. The demand to try something that old from Ardbeg is surely very, very high, and the supply is extremely limited which means that unless they set it at a fairly wallet bruising price, it will be snapped up by collectors/speculators and sold on for huge sums of money in the market, none of which Ardbeg would see.

If you break it down to 70 euro for each year in the cask, it has hardly been a massive money making investment for Ardbeg.
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Postby Lawrence » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:59 am

It can only end in tears....


I think that's the way the Germans feel. In any case regarding the price of Ardbeg, these things tend to go in cycles, they'll be back down again.
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Postby Admiral » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:12 am

Hi Lawrence,

(Sorry to have been so quiet for so long)

these things tend to go in cycles, they'll be back down again

Could you elaborate? I can't think of any whiskies that have come back down? Certainly in my neck of the woods, price increases have been going up and up, and single malts in Australia have almost become a luxury item. :cry:

Cheers,
AD
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Postby Jan » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:11 am

I had expected the price to be sky high - but €2800 is perhaps a bit on the high side.

Is this price confirmed or purely rumour ?

Cheers
Jan
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Postby kallaskander » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:39 am

Hi there,

gentlemen I know that an argument or an allegation does not become more right or true by constantly repeating it but ...
Ardbeg belongs to Louis Vitton Moet Hennessy. There are no cheap Louis Vitton handbags, there is no cheap Moet champagne and there is very little if any at all of cheap Hennessy cognac around.
LVMH bought Glenmorangie because of the value of the Glenmorangie and Ardbeg brands. They blong to a company now which collects luxury brands and where Diageo has a 34% stake in.
So we should not wonder that they bring whiskies out with high price tags. That is what the buying of Glenmorangie plc was all about. I can imagine that they were not too happy to learn that the warehouses at Ardbeg were empty and that valuable Ardbeg from the 1970s (1975) was "wasted" for Uigeadail. We can expect that Glen Moray will either change its image completely in the near future or will be sold on.

Just to remind us that whisky is big business http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/bu ... =505052006

Greetings
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Postby Aidan » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:50 am

Ardbeg are going to be very sorry to hear that I won't be buying a bottle. Although I would swap a couple of Ooglings for one.
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Postby Frodo » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:39 pm

I wonder would I be able to make payments in order to get a bottle - like buying a car?
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:34 pm

parvus wrote:
If you break it down to 70 euro for each year in the cask, it has hardly been a massive money making investment for Ardbeg.


kallaskander wrote:Hi there,

Just to remind us that whisky is big business http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/bu ... =505052006

Greetings
kallaskander


See this is where I dissagree... If you have a bog standard 10yo @ 46% You'd probably get max 350 bottles to the cask retailing at circa 40.00euros (as Euro's was the original quote). Therefore a single cask would gross 14,000 at retail. Do this 4 times over for equality to the 40 year old cask you get a gross of 56,000. So at the end of the day you are nearly paying 245,000 more for one old cask than buying 4 10yo casks every 10 years which if you were a paying customer in this regard you are still only taking up space of one cask. There in lies my delima the 40yo is far more lucrative than regular bottlings in this scenario as are all older single casks. I have no problem distilleries charging hundreds for rare, exclusive and old bottlings and making good money but when they are charging thousands that is where I see greed. And I have to admit Midleton have had the audacity to do something similar (2000Euro per bottle for a 20yo!!!! :evil: )

You see people are so used to seeing these prices in Auction they are taking prices like this for granted. But getting a bottle at auction and getting a bottle at retail are 2 completely different things.

Oh well ... not really much off my nose at the end of the day.... just my 2cents worth.. Kent Brocman signing off :wink:
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Postby bamber » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:13 pm

Ardbeg 10yo is still the best value SMS around today IMO, so I find it hard to resent them.

As for charging a ludicrous price for their 40yo - don't Glenfarclas charge about the same for their 40yo. They'll probably be on ebay for twice the price next year.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:30 pm

There is a maximum that someone will pay, though. Prices get driven up by speculators until people have shelled out about as much as they ever will. Ardbeg seems to top out at around £400 a bottle. OK - a few people will pay more but I guess a 1965 selling at £2000 will sit around on the shelves for a long time and will probably never increase very much. I like the argument that it serves as free advertising.

It is worth remembering that another collectible distillery - Laphroaig - sold their 1960 (40yo) for around £400 a go and it sold out quickly. However, I don't think it has risen particularly in the collectible market. Now they sell a 40yo non-vintage at £1000 a bottle and it is just not shifting.

Also, the collectible whisky markey may well be booming at the moment, but if you keep pouring in more collectible material into the market, and if existing collectibles do not get drunk, and if new collectors stop being recruited, then the market will reach saturation point. In other words, whilst each rare Ardbeg might be rare, there will be so many rare Ardbegs that noone will hanker after a specific rare Ardbeg. Obviously, though, Ardbeg is more restrained in putting out rare bottlings than, say, Arran, Bruichladdich, Edradour, Glenmorangie and the usual suspects.
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:34 pm

I think you have a very valid point Nick.. well said.
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Postby Aidan » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:37 pm

Yeah, nobody deserves this bottling. While I can't afford it, I'm sure some can. They probably don't have to sell that much of it to justify releasing it in the first place.

There are some Midleton special editions that sell for €2000. Their Green Spot 12 is €850, which to me is much worse than what Ardbeg are doing, because at least the Ardbeg is from rare aged stocks.
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Postby Lawrence » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:45 pm

Admiral wrote:Hi Lawrence,

(Sorry to have been so quiet for so long)

these things tend to go in cycles, they'll be back down again

Could you elaborate? I can't think of any whiskies that have come back down? Certainly in my neck of the woods, price increases have been going up and up, and single malts in Australia have almost become a luxury item. :cry:

Cheers,
AD


You've been gone???? :wink: Glad you're back. As to my comment about prices I think they'll even out once stocks of the older pre Glenmornagie PLC take over days are all gone and all that's available is new production. I could be wrong on this, I don't have a crystal ball. Also we've never seen a distillery remain highly popular forever, somebody else will grab the attention and then prices will come down. Maybe.
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Postby Aidan » Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:54 pm

Lawrence wrote:
Admiral wrote:As to my comment about prices I think they'll even out once stocks of the older pre Glenmornagie PLC take over days are all gone and all that's available is new production. I could be wrong on this, I don't have a crystal ball. Also we've never seen a distillery remain highly popular forever, somebody else will grab the attention and then prices will come down. Maybe.


Yes, the whisky writers will decide on a new greatest distillery in the world and everyone else will follow. I'd like to be there when they spin the wheel.
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Postby Spirit of Islay » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:24 pm

bamber wrote:Ardbeg 10yo is still the best value SMS around today IMO, so I find it hard to resent them.

As for charging a ludicrous price for their 40yo - don't Glenfarclas charge about the same for their 40yo. They'll probably be on ebay for twice the price next year.

Hi Bamber ,
I think your last sentence probably sums up why the prices have shot up on recent specials (like the £300 for the FI bottling) , LVMH will know whats going on and set the prices accordingly (it is they and not the distillery who set the prices..... ) , i haven't heard what the price will be or the numbers of bottles involved in the 65 , but going off recent prices for other older bottlings a price like that wouldn't surprise me . Also the way the prices have crept up on the standard bottlings does suggest that Ardbeg under LVMH in the future won't be as cheap as what it has been....

One thing i'm surprised no one picked up on was the e-mail sent out about the Laphroaig Feis Ile bottling where John Campbell the manager commented on the selling of specials on e-bay ....
"I have noticed on EBay that some of the bottles sold at the festival are being sold at over £100. Please do not do this , it is for your pleasure not your profit!"

Then again perhaps i'm not that it wasn't noticed....

Slainte
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Postby bamber » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:31 pm

I just hope they get drunk eventually, by people who'll appreciate them.

If the powers that be want them drunk maybe specials should me made available at festivals only and unsealed.

What I'd give for a taste of that Ardbeg though :cry:
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:35 pm

Spirit of Islay wrote:
bamber wrote:Ardbeg 10yo is still the best value SMS around today IMO, so I find it hard to resent them.

As for charging a ludicrous price for their 40yo - don't Glenfarclas charge about the same for their 40yo. They'll probably be on ebay for twice the price next year.



One thing i'm surprised no one picked up on was the e-mail sent out about the Laphroaig Feis Ile bottling where John Campbell the manager commented on the selling of specials on e-bay ....
"I have noticed on EBay that some of the bottles sold at the festival are being sold at over £100. Please do not do this , it is for your pleasure not your profit!"

Then again perhaps i'm not that it wasn't noticed....

Slainte
Gordon


I replied about 5mins after I recieved it.... :D but the situation here is they are selling off a very collectable bottle for £50.00 to the fans so they are trying to give back to their patrons not rip them off which is great, I reckon that they know they could easily sell it for 100 too. The ardbeg situation is purly for profit however. If I get one I personally will drink it but of course people will sell it on ebay for what ever they can get.
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Postby Jan » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:41 pm

Well - first and foremost, let us keep in mind, that we do not really know the price yet - as far as I know the €2800 pricetag is not confirmed...

Secondly - even if it's true, I can't really blame Ardbeg or LVMH or whoever decides the price. This is probably a prestige bottling for them - a little like the 1937 Glenfiddich or something. (Not quite as prestigious, I know, but still..)

This way they will get the profits themselves, instead of seeing somebody making a buck on ebay. And this way, they will probably sell them in time - but in the meantime will have this bottling in their assortment for some years to come for people to drool over :wink:

Cheers
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Postby scoobypl » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:24 pm

About asking rediculous prices for a collectible malt: If I am not wrong, (and I probably am, :wink:) Bowmore started that... they asked about 100£ for their first "Black"...which was in line with what other 30yo whisky's were going at the time...once the "Black" went for 1000£, they started bringing out bottles like the 64 fino sherry for , what was it? 1500£ or 2000€ or something
I do not really get the difference (comment: "ardbeg 65 is something else than 1957 Glenlivet" ) between a 1965 ardbeg and a 1965 Glenwhatever... Aren't they both whisky's distilled to the best of their respective abilities? Does Ardbeg need so much more skill to make? Or does a barrel of New Make ardbeg cost so much more than the new make Glenlivet? Is Ardbeg really that different?
I bought a 50yo Glen Grant 1956-2006...distillery label by G&M for 230€!!! And a 45yo Strathisla 1960-2005 for 210€
Now, those are prices that are reasonable...and the whisky's are worth it! They are damned good whisky's, the quality is superb, they have a more then respactable age, and they have the price to fit...and don't get me wrong: these bottles are opened...and I have to admit, I've had some 72-73-74-75 ardbeg that were stunning...but these are not far from that. So Ardbeg may be better, and more collectible.... but, No Way does that make it right to ask such a price!!!

Laphroaig FI 2006 for 60£ may be a collectible bottle AND reasonably priced... but it still is 'only' a 12yo 1994distilled Laphroaig... The current cask strength 10 sells for about 30£.... is the age and quality from it's contents only half as good? I doubt it!

Will prices go down? I doubt it! With some sources claiming that there are about 10.000.000 Euro-MILLIONAIRES in china... I think we are going to be left empty-handed!

Paul
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Postby les taylor » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:31 pm

Excuse my ignorance I followed all the discussion but who is Kent Brocman?
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Postby PuckJunkie » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:41 pm

les taylor wrote:Excuse my ignorance I followed all the discussion but who is Kent Brocman?

The anchor on The Simpsons. I apologize if you were just making fun of the spelling -

Puck

P.S. I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:05 am

Got it in one PuckJunkie .... Les that is me just failing to be funny again :lol:

All hail to the Invaders Image Image
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Postby corbuso » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:24 pm

For your information, the price tag of €2800 was confirmed to me by "La Maison du Whisky" in Paris about 3 weeks ago after the tasting of the Ardbeg 1965 40 YO in presence of Bill Lumsden. According to their taste, it is not that good.

Cheers
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Jan wrote:Well - first and foremost, let us keep in mind, that we do not
really know the price yet - as far as I know the €2800 pricetag is not confirmed...
Jan


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Postby bamber » Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:38 pm

They had this to say on it:

Ardbeg 1965 possède un nez marqué par des notes franche de rhum demerara. La vanille caractéristique d'Ardbeg est bien là. La bouche se révèle plus sèche, épicée et mentholée. En finale un boisé sec se fait de plus en plus présent. Jim Murray lui a donné 95/100. J'avoue que ma note se situerait plutôt entre 85 et 90. Un grand moment tout de même. Ne faisons pas la fine bouche.

Google says it means:

Ardbeg 1965 has a nose marked by rum notes frank will demerara. Vanilla characteristic of Ardbeg is well there. The mouth appears drier, spiced and mentholated. Finally a wooded dryness is done increasingly present. Jim Murray gave him 95/100. I acknowledge that my note would range rather between 85 and 90. A great moment all the same. Let us not make the fine mouth.

Surely JM has not overrated a bottle of Ardbeg. Impossible. :wink:
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:39 pm

bamber wrote:
Surely JM has not overrated a bottle of Ardbeg. Impossible. :wink:



I think the problem with Jim is he thinks all whisky is great unless it's really bad :wink:
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Postby bamber » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:40 pm

I'm guilty of that too. The truth is if it contains distilled grain, I'm probably going to like it. Image
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:29 pm

bamber wrote:I'm guilty of that too. The truth is if it contains distilled grain, I'm probably going to like it. Image


Judging by the colour of the bottle, I'd say there was meths in your madness.
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Postby bamber » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:41 pm

Nick Brown wrote:
bamber wrote:I'm guilty of that too. The truth is if it contains distilled grain, I'm probably going to like it. Image


Judging by the colour of the bottle, I'd say there was meths in your madness.


Make any whisky CS, at the twist of a cap :)
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Postby adogranonthepitch » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:36 pm

something is worth what someone is prepared to pay my friends!
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Want to buy one?

Postby IngvarA » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:39 am

In Systembolaget in Sweden there are still 5 Ardbeg 1965 for sale.
They sell it for 24096 SEK wich is approx. 2600 EUR.
Purchase have to be in person at one of the shops in Stockholm or Malmö
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Postby Di Blasi » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:32 am

Thanks for the post IngvarA. I was told by the importer here in Norway all 10 sold in Sweden, (I guess he meant out of their hands). Have you heard about any bars/restaurants or private parties buying it?
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Ardbeg 65 hits ebay

Postby senselessthing » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:59 pm

I see the current going rate is £1800, with 8 days left, now I find out whether I should have taken advantage of 'winning' the ballot or not...

ST
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Re: Ardbeg 65 hits ebay

Postby Di Blasi » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:15 am

senselessthing wrote:I see the current going rate is £1800, with 8 days left, now I find out whether I should have taken advantage of 'winning' the ballot or not...

ST


Where is it going for that price?? Sounds like a deal!
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