Chill Filtering

[Marvin]

Apparently the Americans are to blame for chill filtering as they used to keep their whisky in the fridge and at low temperatures that is when the fatty esters come out to play and float up to the top of the bottle giving a cloudiness to it.

Chill filtering is done at 0 to -2 degrees C, lower than that and you start filtering out other stuff which you want to keep in the whisky.

Whisky is filtered to remove the charcol deposits too, since charred barrels are used to store the whisky and so you get charcol particles in the liquid.

[Deactivated Member]

Apparently the Americans are to blame for chill filtering as they used to keep their whisky in the fridge and at low temperatures that is when the fatty esters come out to play and float up to the top of the bottle giving a cloudiness to it.

Oh sure, blame us.

Chill filtering is done at 0 to -2 degrees C, lower than that and you start filtering out other stuff which you want to keep in the whisky.

You do anyway!

Whisky is filtered to remove the charcol deposits too, since charred barrels are used to store the whisky and so you get charcol particles in the liquid.

All whiskies are given gross mechanical filtering to keep out bits of wood, etc. Having seen the inside of a freshly-recharred barrel, I have to say that I doubt there is any charcoal--it's a very light toasting. In fact, if your toast came up that color, you'd push it back down. The bits of charcoal in Blackadder Raw Cask bottlings are actually added--it's a gimmick, and one which I think cheapens what by all accounts is very good whisky, on the whole.

[Marvin]

Having seen some used filtration pads I can tell you there is indeed charcoal particles.

[Deactivated Member]

So noted, thank you.

[Photon]

What I don't understand is the whole "You cna't get the whisky below 46% abv without using chill filtration." Why can't you just add more water? What's special about 46% abv?

Confused per usual,

-P.

[Marvin]

What I don't understand is the whole "You cna't get the whisky below 46% abv without using chill filtration." Why can't you just add more water? What's special about 46% abv?

Confused per usual,

-P.

What happens is below a certain %age alcohol, the fatty esters come out of solution due to the fact that they are surrounded by more water molecules. This can give the whisky a cloudy appearance, espesially at low temperatures. Even at room temperature however the fatty esters still separate, it just takes longer. Doesnt affect the taste though, but people were pouring out their single malts thinking they had gone off because of the cloudiness.

[Mr Fjeld]

If I may add, if the whisky is under ca 46% it will stay cloudy even when the temperature rises. At 46% or over it will get back to being normal "clear" . This is why all whiskies under 46% are chill filtered I believe?

[Photon]

Thanks guys, that makes sense.

-P.

[Di Blasi]

I think I have heard of whiskies less than 46% being chill-filtered. I just can't remember which ones. I'm sure someone out there knows. Oh yes, Compass Box!! 40% and 43%, un-chill filtered

[Deactivated Member]

I saw a bottle of Bladnoch at 40%, unchillfiltered. It looked like an unfiltered weissbier.

Mr Picky sez it's not so much that whiskies under 46% are chillfiltered; it's more that bottlers who wish not to chillfilter don't dilute under 46%. Murray McDavid were the pioneers here, no?

[Lawrence]

True, our bottling of Ben Nevis has quite a bit of this and that floating about and thus is full of flavour. Good for MMcD for listening to their customers.

[Marvin]

I think I have heard of whiskies less than 46% being chill-filtered. I just can't remember which ones. I'm sure someone out there knows.

Pretty much all of them are.

[Di Blasi]

I think I have heard of whiskies less than 46% being chill-filtered. I just can't remember which ones. I'm sure someone out there knows.

Pretty much all of them are.

Whooooops! I was tired last night, it was late! I meant to say I know of whisky NOT being chill-filtered and bottled under 46%. Compass Box doesn't chill-filter, not sure about all of their bottlings, and bottles under 46%.

[Wave]

Many of my Lorne Mackillop D&M Single Malt Aficionado's Club bottlings are at 43%, "Contains no additives of any sort and has not been subjected to chill stabilization or filtration".


Cheers!

[Drammer]

This dilution brinign out the fatty esters is exactly the same process that leads to the clouding of certain drinks like pastis, ouzo and raki. Traditionally one adds water to them and they go milky-white.

[Marvin]

This dilution brinign out the fatty esters is exactly the same process that leads to the clouding of certain drinks like pastis, ouzo and raki. Traditionally one adds water to them and they go milky-white.

Ah, same with absinth too.

[TreacleSponge]

Signatory do a range of unchillfiltered bottlings. I've only tried the Edradour - it does have more flavours than the usual 10yo, but I don't think it's as good.

And I'm pretty sure Bruichladdich (not just their Murray McDavid) don't chillfilter anything.

[Deactivated Member]

Yes, and they bottle at 46%--the practice dates to their acquisition by the MMcD party.

Is the nonchillfiltering threshold 46%, or 43%? I suspect it's not such a clear line. Perhaps 43% is fine most of the time, but 46% is considered safer.

(Gosh, TS, I got as far south as Carlisle this year--why did I not make it down to Mardale? Next year, maybe.)

[Nidaros]

I guess the Campbeltown whiskies are not chillfiltered, also they do not have additives.

One for purists I guess. Good as well.

[Marvin]

I guess the Campbeltown whiskies are not chillfiltered, also they do not have additives.

One for purists I guess. Good as well.

Eh, no whisky has additives.

[Lawrence]

Yes, and they bottle at 46%--the practice dates to their acquisition by the MMcD party.

Is the nonchillfiltering threshold 46%, or 43%? I suspect it's not such a clear line. Perhaps 43% is fine most of the time, but 46% is considered safer.

(Gosh, TS, I got as far south as Carlisle this year--why did I not make it down to Mardale? Next year, maybe.)

I believe the threshold is 46% Mr. T.

[Wave]

I guess the Campbeltown whiskies are not chillfiltered, also they do not have additives.

One for purists I guess. Good as well.

Eh, no whisky has additives.

Ah but some do, your favorite carmel for one is considered an additive. Also those bits of charred cask that Black Adder adds to their bottlings. Disgusting!

The only additive I like in anything is when Chimay (Belgian Ale) adds yeast to their bottles of ale so it ferments more while in the bottle. Now that's a good additive!!


Cheers!

[Marvin]

Caramel is the only additive allowed, so why not just say caramel rather than additives. Charcoal isnt really an additive because it doesnt dissolve.

[Deactivated Member]

Caramel is the only additive allowed, so why not just say caramel rather than additives. Charcoal isnt really an additive because it doesnt dissolve.

They add it, and you might well drink it, so it's an additive in my book, and a gimmicky one at that. I think the practice should be banned. Caramel, too, now that you mention it.

Additives are allowed in Canadian whisky, which is a shame.

[Marvin]

Do they actually add charcoal or does it come from the casks?

[TreacleSponge]

And to bring us back from the brink of a caramel thread derailment...

I believe the threshold is 46% Mr. T.

Oh, I’d never noticed that my non-chillfiltered 10yo Edradour is 46%, whereas the chillfiltered 10yo is 40%.

I drink both without water, so p’raps the abv difference is why I remember the non-chillfiltered as being more flavoursome, and I wonder now (as I didn’t make tasting notes) if it’s maybe not ‘worse’ than the standard 10yo – just ‘different’. In the interest of research, methinks it’s time for a tasting tonight

Has anyone else tried any of the Signatory Unchillfiltered range? Comes in a silver tin tube.

(Gosh, TS, I got as far south as Carlisle this year--why did I not make it down to Mardale? Next year, maybe.)

Mr TH – we’re only 40 minutes drive south of Carlisle… a visit would be most welcome next time when you’re so (relatively!) nearby

[Deactivated Member]

Mr TH – we’re only 40 minutes drive south of Carlisle… a visit would be most welcome next time when you’re so (relatively!) nearby

Thanks, TS, will definitely give it some thought--England has gotten short shrift from me the past couple years. As it was, I was already 2 1/2 hours out of my base in Isle of Whithorn. Just a quick border raid. Received courtesy from English Heritage, and returned with a fistful of postcards.

I've had some Sig ucf's--they seem to get good reviews, although I'm a little leery after a very unpleasant Caol Ila. Have to think it was poor cask selection, and if there's one thing an indy bottler shouldn't do, it's release something from a bad cask. But I had an HP that was fine, and have a Glen Rothes [sic] in waiting. I'm less apt to buy one now, anyway, as I prefer to get IB's at cask strength these days.

[Deactivated Member]

Do they actually add charcoal or does it come from the casks?

They want you to think it comes naturally from the casks, but they make sure there is some in every bottle. I haven't had any Blackadders, and Joe Howell raves about them, but this really irks me. It's faking "natural".

[Marvin]

Do they actually add charcoal or does it come from the casks?

They want you to think it comes naturally from the casks, but they make sure there is some in every bottle. I haven't had any Blackadders, and Joe Howell raves about them, but this really irks me. It's faking "natural".

Wouldnt be hard to make sure there's some in every bottle. Just dont filter it at all and mix it up well before bottling.

[Deactivated Member]

Wouldnt be hard to make sure there's some in every bottle. Just dont filter it at all and mix it up well before bottling.

I hate when I "know" something, or think I do, and then can't document it. Have been searching for some verification of my claim, and the best I've found so far is a raised eyebrow from MaltMadness:

http://www.maltmadness.com/l160-169.html#169

Scroll down to the paragraph starting "OK, so what have we learned tonight?"

Everything else I've found has been credulous reportage of the Blackadder line--"It even has bits of cask in it," etc. If I find anything else, I'll let you know; in the meantime, if you wish to be skeptical of what I have said, I cannot blame you.

[Deactivated Member]

Here's a brief thread on the topic, specifically referencing bourbon/American whiskey:
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/s ... -filtering

FYI, the thread's posters inlcude: 'cowdery' is Chuck Cowdery, whose articles appear in Whisky Magazine and other publications; 'jvanwinkle' is Julian Van Winkle III, bottler of the Pappy and Old Rip Van Winkle whiskeys; 'Ken Weber' is Buffalo Trace bourbon brand manager Ken Weber (whose comments pre-date the advent of non-chill-filtered George T. Stagg, William Larue Weller and Thomas Handy bottlings).

[Mr Fjeld]

I've certainly learned from this thread as I thought the only unchillfiltered single malts under 46% were the very old ones which had lost part of their alcohol content to the angels.

[Deactivated Member]

This from the Blackadder website:

We use a special bottling process to make sure that each and every bottle of Blackadder RAW CASK contains its own share of the cask sediments as well as natural oils and fats that might otherwise be left behind when filling a cask strength whisky straight from cask.

I will concede the possibility that the sediments are actually from the cask being bottled. Still, they go to some effort to insure that each bottle gets its bits. It still strikes me as gimmicky and unnecessary.

And hey...can't you define "Blackadder" as "one who adds black"? (Don't know why I didn't think of that before....)

[Frodo]

Has anyone else tried any of the Signatory Unchillfiltered range? Comes in a silver tin tube.

I've had an 11yr Ardmore - as has Harry, Lord P., and perhaps Wendy. Got used to it at the end. Certainly a flavourful malt...

[Drrich1965]

Has anyone else tried any of the Signatory Unchillfiltered range? Comes in a silver tin tube.

I've had an 11yr Ardmore - as has Harry, Lord P., and perhaps Wendy. Got used to it at the end. Certainly a flavourful malt...

I have had a wonderful 1981 21yo Brora, just stunning, a very intereting 1991 Bowmore 12yo, also terrific. Have a 11yo Edradour waiting in the wings to be opened.