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Talisker and Johnny Walkers

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Talisker and Johnny Walkers

Postby suth100 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:10 am

Ok recently had the enjoyable task of going to diageo hq for a whisky masterclass as part of work (i'm a bar manager)...

Now, i have to own up to not being the biggest scottch whisky fan (although i am getting more into it) i have enjoyed premium bourbons, tequilla and rum for years due to there complexity and flavours.

Anyway i came away really having enjoyed Talisker 10yr and Johnny Walker Gold/Blue more so than i have in the past.

I was wondering if anyone has any views on the either the TALISKER 1993 Distiller's Edition or the TALISKER 20 Year Old cask strength as i was thinking of treating myslef for xmas...
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Postby EdipisReks » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:18 am

the distiller's edition is very good, but quite different from the regular 10 yo, as the DE is a sherried whisky.
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Postby suth100 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:32 am

Thanks,

how about the 20yr old? I gather its fairly hard to come by/pricy? is it similar in style to the the 10yr or just completly diffrent too?

I might just stick with what i know, as i know i like and get the 10yr

Ohhh just a thought, does anyone knows anywhere in edinburgh i could try a dram or too. As i said before, the scotch thing is not normally my scene, so not sure which bars carry the best selections in town
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Postby peergynt323 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:52 am

You won't be disappointed with the 25yo. 8) I think the 20yo is rare. It won a malt maniacs gold last year.

Maybe try the 18. It's a staple in my collection. Well-balanced smoke/peat, salt, sherry/fruit and spice. Basically everything the 25yo is without the huge attack and ultra-long finish.
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Postby Di Blasi » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:20 am

Welcome suth100! I can highly recommend the Talisker 25y and 175th Anniversary cask strength bottlings, excellent, and I'm not a Talisker fan really. Are those available to you?
But interesting you find those 2/3 whiskies to your liking, because I think I've heard Johnny Walker is based on Talisker, not sure how much and which one of the Johnny Walkers.
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Postby Di Blasi » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:29 am

suth100 wrote:Ohhh just a thought, does anyone knows anywhere in edinburgh i could try a dram or too. As i said before, the scotch thing is not normally my scene, so not sure which bars carry the best selections in town

Yes of course! Bow Bar, an excellent whisky bar with some great ales. And of course, you also have The Scotch Malt Whisky Society, on Queen Street and also the original one, the home, The Vaults in Leith. Thursday's they are open to non-members to enjoy, at the Queen Street location anyway. Do check it out!!!
http://www.smws.co.uk/venues/
Are you a bar manager in Edinburgh suth100??
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Postby Admiral » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:33 am

Johnny Walker is based on Talisker, not sure how much and which one of the Johnny Walkers.


Well, not quite. Yes, there is certainly Talisker in many (all?) of the Johnnie Walkers, but it doesn't form the base.

The heart of JW is Cardhu (Red & Black), Royal Lochnagar (Blue), Linkwood (Green), and I think I'm right in saying that Clynelish is the heart of Gold.

Cheers,
AD
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Postby Di Blasi » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:34 am

Admiral wrote:
Johnny Walker is based on Talisker, not sure how much and which one of the Johnny Walkers.


Well, not quite. Yes, there is certainly Talisker in many (all?) of the Johnnie Walkers, but it doesn't form the base.

The heart of JW is Cardhu (Red & Black), Royal Lochnagar (Blue), Linkwood (Green), and I think I'm right in saying that Clynelish is the heart of Gold.

Cheers,
AD


Great, thanks for the info Admiral!
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:13 am

The Bow Bar for sure. Find Deacon Brodie's on the Royal Mile (it's good for a landmark, anyway), walk one block south, turn right, the Bow is on your left, halfway down to the Grassmarket. Great pub, no tv, music, or fruit machines--you'll end up talking to somebody, probably a malt enthusiast. 125 malts and eight real ales. Just don't show up when Nick and Crieftan and Ron and I are there, or you'll wind up trying to remember how you ended up in the Standing Order.
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Postby suth100 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:24 pm

yes i've been a bar manager in nemerous style bars around edinburgh for the last 5years. Just started 3 weeks ago at the new Hudson Hotel, Bar and Club at the west end of Princes Street. I'm trying to brush up my malts knoledge, as with this location i susspect it's going to be a bigger part of trade than in the venues i've been in before.

Thanks for the recomendations, i'll defiantly head up to the Bow bar to check it out. You've got to love some of the hidden gems edinburgh has to offer.

On an aside, those of you who are into other spirits too (rums inparticular) should check out one of my fav's called the Blue Blazer located just off lothian road across from the Point Hotel... Theve got a trully great back bar at great prices :lol:
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Postby Jesse » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:55 pm

I'm a big fan of Johnnie Walker's labels, expecially Gold (My palette may not be ready for the Blue, as I find myself comparing it to Gold - that could be the price affecting my judgement too).

Talisker 10 is my first scotch love, which is probably why I was initially taken with Red and then Black Label. I've read that Lagavulin is used in the Black Label; does anyone know if they use it in any of the other core JW products?

I went to Edinburgh in 2004, and got sticker shock at the local bottle shops. For an American it's much better to raid the Duty Free shops at the airport... in Washington, DC. (Weak Dollar!)
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Postby peergynt323 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:06 pm

Most beginners I know like green the best. Have you tried it?

I think Gold is nice--peatier than the others in the range. I heard that 99% of Clynelish's whisky goes into the making of Gold. I wonder what % of Gold is Clynelish whisky...

Overall though, I prefer a pure malt. After you get used to the concentration, it's tough to go back.
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Postby Jesse » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:53 pm

I enjoy theGreen Label a lot, just polished off a bottle recently. I bought the Green and the JW Sampler pack so I could try the entire "rainbow" of JW, it was interesting to go from one to the other and back again. Somehow I kept going back to the Gold more than the others...for the money, I'd say Gold is the best buy (only $10 more than Green Label locally).

It would be nice to find that 1% stock of Clynelish!
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Postby suth100 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:38 pm

Belive it or not but the green label is very hard to come by in scotland.

Most of my bar supliers and local shops only stock black. them gold and blue for the more specialised.... I can't get anyhting else for the bar at a sensible cost.

Personally having done a side by side compair i still recone the gold is the best...
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:13 am

Jesse wrote:I've read that Lagavulin is used in the Black Label....


I doubt this--Lagavulin has been in short supply and high demand in recent years, and I've been told that next to none goes for blends. I suppose it's possible that younger stuff is more readily available for blending.
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Postby JohnyyGuitar » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:58 am

Jesse wrote:
I've read that Lagavulin is used in the Black Label....


"Don't beleive anything you read and half of what you see, or taste in this case".....memorize that and repeat 3 times a day and you will become a very wise man.
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Postby Admiral » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:27 am

Mr T wrote:
Jesse wrote:
I've read that Lagavulin is used in the Black Label....

I doubt this--Lagavulin has been in short supply and high demand in recent years, and I've been told that next to none goes for blends. I suppose it's possible that younger stuff is more readily available for blending.


My personal suspicion is that Lagavulin used to go into Johnnie Walker, but that it's been phased out over the years and now Caol Ila provides the necessary peat & smoke dressing to the blend.

Cheers,
AD
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:35 am

Makes sense, AD--that's what Caol Ila is there for, which is why they never marketed it as a single until recently. What do you suppose they'll do when CI malt becomes so popular that there isn't enough for blends?
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Postby Admiral » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:42 am

I guess they'll start making heavily-peated Cardhu! :D
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Postby les taylor » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:20 am

We got a new kitten two months ago and have called her Talisker as she has been chipped her name is official.



:)
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Re: Talisker and Johnny Walkers

Postby corbuso » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:46 am

suth100 wrote:Ok recently had the enjoyable task of going to diageo hq for a whisky masterclass as part of work (i'm a bar manager)...

Now, i have to own up to not being the biggest scottch whisky fan (although i am getting more into it) i have enjoyed premium bourbons, tequilla and rum for years due to there complexity and flavours.

Anyway i came away really having enjoyed Talisker 10yr and Johnny Walker Gold/Blue more so than i have in the past.

I was wondering if anyone has any views on the either the TALISKER 1993 Distiller's Edition or the TALISKER 20 Year Old cask strength as i was thinking of treating myslef for xmas...

Like mentioned in the posts, the DE is sherry finished. Both the 18YO and 175th anniversary are very good, but different from the 10 YO. The 18YO is smoother, less spicy than the 10 and the anniversary is a mix of old and young Taliskers. Regarding the 20YO, there has been several versions. I only tried the first one, the 20 YO OB 62% (Sherry Matured) which was excellent. Haven't tried the 59.8% (?) bourbon. If you like the vivacity of the 10 with more complexity, The Whisky Shop had an excellent Fiskavaig 27 YO. Don't now if they still have some.

Regards
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Postby badams » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:40 pm

the old standard distillery bottling of Talisker at 12 years old was the best I have ever had. Much better than 10 all the favors come together like Lagavulin 16, just a little less body and more sweetness. That was 20-25 years ago.
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Postby Admiral » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:02 pm

Hi badams,

Yes, I entirely agree...the old 12yo was a spectacular bottling, and surely the one on which Talisker earned its reputation!

And guess what? My club still has a couple of bottles of it left!!! We stocked up on quite a few about 10 or 15 years ago when a liquor store in Sydney found an old case at the back of their shop that they'd forgotten about. We crack a bottle open about every three or four years just to remind ourselves as to how good Talisker can be.

Cheers,
AD
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Postby Jesse » Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:36 pm

Well, I thought the Gold Label was only $10 more than the Green Label, until I went back to buy it, its actually $85, same as Lagavulin 16. (So I bought the Lagavulin) Apparently I had scoped the price for Johnnie Walker Swing, thinking it was the Gold Label price.

Now, has anyone here tried the JW Swing? I may try some, next time I want a blend...
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Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:45 pm

Member badams thinks it's the greatest thing ever:

http://www.whiskymag.com/forum/viewtopi ... ght=#66551

Others seem less inclined to rave. Just goes to show....
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The Swing

Postby Jesse » Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:59 am

Wow. Well, at least he didn't pussyfoot!

I know I'll eventually buy it, because it's from Johnnie Walker...and the Round-Bottomed Bottle of Yore has to be pretty neat. But it does sound a little underwhelming, and I was recently dissapointed with Tomintoul 16 yr. for the same reason. Just didn't do much for me.
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Postby badams » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:48 pm

let me clarify, Talisker 12 is AWESOME(reminds me of Laphroaig 15 today), and I wonder why its not readily available in its form from 20-25 years ago? Outside of Lagavulin 16 its the best standard bottling of island scotch I have drank under 20 years old.

I have just had a conference with JW Gold Label and Swing is better half way through the dram. Gold Label introduces alot of Clynelish and makes it more full bodied. But Swing has that singular Cardhu taste that I love! Along with Dailuane, Linkwood and Rosebank that I think I taste, Swing is the definition of great Highland scotch! Blended by the master to bring together the best of the highlands. IMO

Please dont buy any, so I have enuff around for myself.

I could sit around and drink Johnnie Walker Swing, Ardbeg 10 and Redbreast 12 and let you guys fight over the over aged, over expensive, over finished versions of everything else and laugh! If this aint good enough then you need to try a sex change!

--------------------
slippers are for sippers , but drinkers wear boots!
Last edited by badams on Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jesse » Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:43 am

You've convinced me: I'll definitely try it before I get a sex change! :D Johnnie hasn't let me down yet...Although I'm trying to stick to single malts at the moment, so it may be a while. I haven't tried any of those Highland malts yet, does Swing compare at all to Green Label, or vice versa?

Also, do you have any thoughts on Clynelish? I see it's reasonably priced...
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Postby badams » Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:37 am

well Im not very fond of Green Label, they dont really compare. Green Label lists alot of great malts on its packaging, but they just war with one another. IMO no comparison.
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Postby Drrich1965 » Sun Dec 24, 2006 3:40 pm

badams wrote:let me clarify, Talisker 12 is AWESOME(reminds me of Laphroaig 15 today), and I wonder why its not readily available in its form from 20-25 years ago? Outside of Lagavulin 16 its the best standard bottling of island scotch I have drank under 20 years old.

I have just had a conference with JW Gold Label and Swing is better half way through the dram. Gold Label introduces alot of Clynelish and makes it more full bodied. But Swing has that singular Cardhu taste that I love! Along with Dailuane, Linkwood and Rosebank that I think I taste, Swing is the definition of great Highland scotch! Blended by the master to bring together the best of the highlands. IM
Please dont buy any, so I have enuff around for myself.

I could sit around and drink Johnnie Walker Swing, Ardbeg 10 and Redbreast 12 and let you guys fight over the over aged, over expensive, over finished versions of everything else and laugh! If this aint good enough then you need to try a sex change!

--------------------
slippers are for sippers , but drinkers wear boots!


And we willbe glad to drink them. :wink: Oh yeah, amazing how much excellent malt whisky I can get for the price of a JW Gold,which is a nice drink, but to me no more than average. I will talk to my wife about the sex change, and get back to you on that one.

BTW, every hear of the "ad hominem fallacy"? It seems to be one of your favorite means of argument :wink:

For your reading pleasure...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
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Postby badams » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:42 pm

if Ardbeg 10 is to island scotch what Romanee Conti is to burgundy(pinot noir)

if Redbreast 12 is to pot still irish what Bruno Giacosa is to barolo(nebbiolo)

is Johnnie Walker Swing to blended whisky what Pegau is to chateauneuf du pape(grenache, syrah, mouvedre)?
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Postby badams » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:57 pm

convenced, Johnnie Walker Swing, in the freeze, straight from the bottle. Nip on that for the evening.
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