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Glen Ord and Terroir

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Glen Ord and Terroir

Postby Onefortheditch » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:32 pm

The Glen Ord 12 box says its full bodied....spicy, peat smoked dryness...hints of ginger etc......

Must have missed a lot of that..... :)

However when I opened the bottle the smell that hit me reminded me of a the smell of local river fishing bothies, sheds and shops from about 30 years ago. Glen Ord does have a smell of this locality.

And Talisker has a particular smell that can be found on Skye shores where the salmon fishermen used to tar their boats. Its smokey, but Skye smokey!!

These are smells that I cannot recall from anywhere else. So I think the French must be right...... :shock:
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Glen Ord and Terroir

Postby Muskrat Portage » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:55 am

1-4theditch:
I drained the last of my Glen Ord 12yo in July last year, but it was one of my favorite bottles as it was gone within a year and a half. Although it's Northern Highlands, I found it reminiscent of some of the Speysiders that I've sampled, abeit with a bit more bite. I'll have to track down another bottle to see if I can discern the scents you describe.
Peter
(Inverness, eh? My maternal ancestors come from Forres, had a little fortified manor house just north of the rwy tracks)
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Re: Glen Ord and Terroir

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:12 am

Muskrat Portage wrote:(Inverness, eh? My maternal ancestors come from Forres, had a little fortified manor house just north of the rwy tracks)


...But instead of whisky, they made rum. The standard order in the local pub was "Rum--Forres rum!"

:oops: :oops: :oops:
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Postby Admiral » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:31 am

We can always trust you to interrupt a good & serious discussion, can't we? :roll:

Although the Scotch industry doesn't really use the term terroir or any variant, we do have "the regions", and I became convinced years ago that the nose & flavour of a whisky can be tremendously influenced by the environment in which it is made & matured.

Coastal whiskies, in particular, are almost always identifiable - their distinct aromas & flavours betray their location.

Cheers,
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:41 am

Admiral wrote:We can always trust you to interrupt a good & serious discussion, can't we? :roll:


Yes indeed. It seems preferable to arguing the terroir point yet again; saying that I find nothing remotely "coastal" in Bruichladdich, Bunnahabhain, or Scapa, and that I find ridiculous the notion that flavors of salt and seaweed ooze into the barrel from the nearby beach; and that the French notion of terroir is as much a matter of method as of geography, and doesn't apply in any way to the whisky industry. I've said these things before, and I'm sure I didn't change anyone's mind. If 'ditch tastes those things and makes those associations, that's fine with me; I'd never say he was wrong.

Happy now?

Now excuse me, I've gotta find Bubba.
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Postby Admiral » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:47 am

Come on....if repeating a discussion or topic point ad-nauseum here was banned, 75% of these threads would disappear!!!! :)

(How many times have we done the "How long will my opened bottle last?", "Do you prefer Ardbeg, Lagavulin, or Laphroaig?", "What's the best glass?", "Should I add water?", "What's wrong with ice?", etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.)

Cheers always,
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:53 am

Admiral wrote:Come on....if repeating a discussion or topic point ad-nauseum here was banned, 75% of these threads would disappear!!!! :)


True--I just didn't want to get into this one again. Pardon the grouchiness. But don't expect me to stop making stupid jokes! 8)
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Postby kallaskander » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:51 am

Hi there,

Andrew Jefford translates terroir as "placeness" in Peat Smoke and Spirit.

I like that translation.

Greetings
kallaskander
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Postby Scotchio » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:20 am

Whisky from specific areas sometimes seems to have similar qualities for whatever reason. I havent tried Ord yet but Millburn, GlenMhor and Glen Albyn all seemed to share an almost lucazade like barley sugar note to a greater or lesser degree.
Re Tattie, I know it's an old arguement,I did find the old GM Scapa's lightly salty and Bunny 12/ Laddie 15 seemed mildly coastal to me. Perhaps the salt has evaporated from the older bottles you drink :wink:
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Re: Glen Ord and Terroir

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:58 am

Onefortheditch wrote:....

And Talisker has a particular smell that can be found on Skye shores where the salmon fishermen used to tar their boats. Its smokey, but Skye smokey!!

These are smells that I cannot recall from anywhere else. So I think the French must be right...... :shock:


I have to agree about Talisker, every time I enjoy a dram I really feel as though I'm right back on Skye!

Not all whiskies do this to me, but Talisker is one which can ONLY come from Skye and reminds me of the Island every time.
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Postby Reggaeblues » Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:59 pm

MP wrote: "I drained the last of my Glen Ord 12yo in July last year, but it was one of my favorite bottles as it was gone within a year and a half."

Wha' ?!?? MP, either you've got a LOT more bottles than me(would love to take you up on your offer of hospitality BTW!)

...or a LOT more self control!

I was given three bottles of Lagavulin 16 for my birthday on the 4th...and the first of them is already two thirds gone after less than 3 weeks! Admittedly , it's a long time since I had a Lag, and she WAS my first love.

and yes, i work a pub every few months where Ord 12 is the house dram...I always look forward to it, and the boss makes sure i get a large one on the house. Sweet, malt and ginger is what i remember...
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:55 pm

Scotchio wrote:Perhaps the salt has evaporated from the older bottles you drink :wink:


Pardon me for taking your jest literally, but if there were salt in whisky (there's not), it would be the one thing that didn't evaporate, and would concentrate over the years.

I regard a lot of this as romantic twaddle. But I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, because I happen to enjoy romantic twaddle myself. Generally, it's harmless enough.
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Postby Scotchio » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:34 pm

MrTattieHeid wrote:
Scotchio wrote:Perhaps the salt has evaporated from the older bottles you drink :wink:


Pardon me for taking your jest literally, but if there were salt in whisky (there's not), it would be the one thing that didn't evaporate, and would concentrate over the years.

I regard a lot of this as romantic twaddle. But I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, because I happen to enjoy romantic twaddle myself. Generally, it's harmless enough.


It was a joke Tattie,as I'm sure you realised, just wondered if you'd bite :wink:
I find a light salt element in a lot of whiskies, not just coastal ones, why? I have no idea but i like it.
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Postby Lawrence » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:45 pm

[quote="MrTattieHeid"] I find nothing remotely "coastal" in Bruichladdich /quote]

I had a Bruichladdich 10 last night and was struck by how coastal it actually is. I trust this won't make you go postal Mr. T :wink:

It was oozing terroir.
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Postby The Fachan » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:49 pm

Lawrence,

How would you describe coastal, is it salty, iodine, seaweed or the sewerage you find on most beaches these days, last one tongue in cheek.
For me coastal seems to open a description.
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Postby Lawrence » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:18 pm

The Fachan wrote:Lawrence,

How would you describe coastal, is it salty, iodine, seaweed or the sewerage you find on most beaches these days, last one tongue in cheek.
For me coastal seems to open a description.


I would describe 'coastal' as being one step removed (and lower on the scale) from 'maritime'. Coastal is maritime lite and maritime is more sea shore, with all the seaweed etc while coastal is more sea breeze etc. Brucihladdich 10 is a perfect example of a coastal whisky. Either that or visa versa!

Highland Park recieves 80% of it's malt from Tamdhu. But it's completley different from Tamdhu, isn't it?

Admiral said it well;

Although the Scotch industry doesn't really use the term terroir or any variant, we do have "the regions", and I became convinced years ago that the nose & flavour of a whisky can be tremendously influenced by the environment in which it is made & matured.

Coastal whiskies, in particular, are almost always identifiable - their distinct aromas & flavours betray their location


More and more industry types and writers, experts etc are beginning to talk about terroir, not in the strict French context but as how it relates to Scotland and scotch whisky. It's a little discussed subject and I think it needs further dicussion.
Last edited by Lawrence on Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Muskrat Portage » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:29 pm

Reggaeblues wrote:...Wha' ?!?? MP, either you've got a LOT more bottles than me(would love to take you up on your offer of hospitality BTW!)...or a LOT more self control! ...
Reggaeblues:
1) Can't seem to drop below 130 and 60+ are open
2) I make it a rule not to drink alone and will sip and then swirl my drink in my mouth, enjoying it fully. Is that self control? Hmmm...
3) The gate is always open :D
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Postby lbacha » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:26 pm

60+ open, now that is a couple bottles, I have about 30 open and I'm trying hard to lower that, I havn't opened a new bottle in ages other than a bottle of Sazerac 18 yr old rye and The new Arbeg "Airigh Nam Beist". I really need to find more people local to me to enjoy drams with. I also buy bottles while I travel and drink those with work associates so that doesn't help to lower the home collection because I spend all week drinking whisky so i ussually open a bottle of wine or go out when I get home which is only every few weeks. If by chance there are any lurkers in the Cleveland/Akron area of Ohio let me know and we can share some whisky.

Len
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Postby Onefortheditch » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:27 am

I was thinking more about smell as opposed to taste. Especially the smell when you first open the bottle. I agree whisky does change a little after it has been opened a while.

I don’t know exactly what the smell of Glen Ord is? But I’m working on it. In fact I’m drinking one now!! Dried wood and wax are possibilities? Smells can bring back memories!!

I think the local water and plant life may have an influence. Skye water definitely has a different smell from water in Inverness or Muir of Ord.

Another example of a water influence is when I drink Nescafe instant coffee in Scotland and in the med. They are entirely different...and the med is much nicer due to the harder or softer water...I'm not sure which.

MP - I haven’t gone to Forres that much in the past but that will change as the east has become much more interesting to me now!! :wink:

And I’ll keep an eye oot for your ancestors hoose!!
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Postby peergynt323 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:37 am

MrTattieHeid wrote:
Scotchio wrote:Perhaps the salt has evaporated from the older bottles you drink :wink:


Pardon me for taking your jest literally, but if there were salt in whisky (there's not), it would be the one thing that didn't evaporate, and would concentrate over the years.

I regard a lot of this as romantic twaddle. But I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, because I happen to enjoy romantic twaddle myself. Generally, it's harmless enough.


http://www.thewhiskystore.de/beginner/mineral.htm

This looks like a pretty good discussion about minerals, salt, etc. I find it hard to believe that whisky has no salt in it, if by salt you mean sodium ions and chlorine ions.
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Postby jimidrammer » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:21 pm

Seemed like a good time to open the Glen Ord 30yo I just got to put it to the "coastal" test. Here's my notes, you decide.

Name: Glen Ord 30yo 58.7% abv, bottled 2005

Region: Northern Highlands

Color: Pure gold

Nose: Grass/hay, apple skins, fresh cut firewood, light ginger note, vanilla bean, cucumber, stony (minerals, sand, creek pebbles), a little root cellar earthiness

Palate: Powerful peppermint intro, the stony/earthy tone continues, the spice takes the middle with black pepper, cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, the whole cabinet

Body: Oily texture with a punchy grasp

Finish: A bitter grass/dry oak theme trails off eloquently even at cask strength

Notes: Not since Brora has a malt so moved me with its uniqueness. And the similarities with that distillery are uncanny. With a splash of water: sweet floral notes abound in the aroma along with Christmas candy canes, pine needles, tree resin; the taste is: after dinner mints, apple butter, white cake icing. This malt screams for water and takes it well, too. At 30 years and still 58.7%, assertive is an understatement. Some of the components are well hidden and take some thought to put into words; it’s one of those that must be experienced to be believed. The Brora nod is deserved and will be regarded.

Quote: Life starts at 30

Score: 90
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Postby Choochoo » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:40 pm

Great notes on a terrific whisky – I must admit to feeling a little guilty when i've added water to this one, but you’re right, it really takes to it well.

And you got it for a darn good price as well, hard to fault that. Cheers!
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:54 am

peergynt323 wrote:I find it hard to believe that whisky has no salt in it, if by salt you mean sodium ions and chlorine ions.


Jackson discussed this once (well, I'm sure more than once). He said a chemist told him definitively that there is no salt in whisky. Jackson's quite proper reply was "I didn't say there was salt--I said I tasted salt." I certainly have, too--I recall the finish on Jura Superstition tasting as if the loosened cap on a salt shaker had slipped off in the back of my mouth.

Don't see the relevance of the link you posted--it's about mineral content in spring water.
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