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Diageo- A new distillery

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Diageo- A new distillery

Postby The Dazzler » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:01 am

This was quite an interesting story to break over the weekend. Diageo are looking at building a new distillery in Speyside. I am always pleased to see new distilleries being planned however I only wish Diageo had kept the options at Rosebank and Pittyvaich open a few years back. Now it seems they need more malt and want a brand new site, welcoming it may be but it would be intersting if they, (during their debates) had re-considered the Rosebank site as a potential???

Slainte!!
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Postby vitara7 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:12 am

diageo dont own the rosebank site so it would have been out the equation. british waterways owns the site.

yes reopening rosebank had they still owned it would have been a lot better i feel than a new speyside one, i mean, how many speyside distilleries do you need.... theres not many lowlanders left....
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Postby The Dazzler » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:25 am

I am aware that Diageo no longer own the site at Rosebank, possibly why this turns out to be a bit more of a shame. It would have been interesting however to know what potential sites were thought of, since Diageo closed sites at Rosebank and St Magdalene it would have been an idea to help the reinvention of Lowland distilleires with a distillery at or around these existing sites. I suppose costs would come into this with the central belt being very high pricing currently. I guess I am hopefull for a wee Lowland revival!!

Slainte!!
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:58 am

This issue was discussed at some length in the most recent WhiskyCast (episode 79). Give it a listen, and you will gain some insight into why Diageo would rather build new than reopen one of the old ones.
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Postby MGillespie » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:07 am

Thanks for the plug, T!

Mark
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:08 am

No sweat...now where's that missing "download" on episode 78?
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Postby MGillespie » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:12 am

It's been fixed...try it again. Seems I forgot to put "2007" instead of "2006" in the file name. Good thing debit cards mean I don't have to write checks any more, or I'd really be hosed...

Mark
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:17 am

Mark, there's no "Listen to this episode" there....
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Postby MGillespie » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:15 pm

Try refreshing your browser now...it should work.

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Postby Scotchio » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:23 pm

The Dazzler wrote:I am aware that Diageo no longer own the site at Rosebank, possibly why this turns out to be a bit more of a shame. It would have been interesting however to know what potential sites were thought of, since Diageo closed sites at Rosebank and St Magdalene it would have been an idea to help the reinvention of Lowland distilleires with a distillery at or around these existing sites. I suppose costs would come into this with the central belt being very high pricing currently. I guess I am hopefull for a wee Lowland revival!!

Slainte!!


Nice idea but it seems unlikely. They obviously didnt need lowlanders ten yrs ago and I cant see things being different now. Also seems odd that they havent just reopened some of their speysiders unless they intend to create a high capacity cost effective supply for blends(re increased demand from markets) in which case a big state of the art speyside distillery may be a better long term financial bet.
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Postby Scotchio » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:59 pm

Actually, when i checked there's only Dufftown , which may already have reopened. I was thinking of tamnavulin, Braes, Glen keith, Caperdonich etc but they are all under other owners.
Still for a brief moment there i thought i knew what I was talking about :roll:
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Postby Bullie » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:51 am

:roll:
Last edited by Bullie on Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Scotchio » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:42 am

So which one is still in use, the old original Dufftown or Sellafield/Windscale/ Pittyvaich/Dufftown ? Must admit it was a bit of a surprise to realise how few Spysiders Diagio have.
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Postby Bullie » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:14 am

Sorry... misleading info erased...
Last edited by Bullie on Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kallaskander » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:14 pm

Hi there,

what are you guys talking about???

Pittyvaich is dismanteled, there is only a plain field in the woods where it used to be. Dufftown is the largest of Diageos distilleries already productionwise and was never named Pittyvaich.

As for the hurray for a new distillery I think that it means that smaller and older ones in Diageos portfolio will have to close in the long run. That will happen when the current boom dies. It happened in 1983 and 1993/94. So look at Diageos distilleries sizes and start buying the malts of the small ones.

Greetings
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Postby Paul A Jellis » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 pm

If the current boom is fuelled by the ever increasing demand for blends from the new markets of Russia, China and India then it could, hopefully, be with us for a very long time. It could even lead to the expansion of some of the smaller distilleries. I live in hope!
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Postby fishboy » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:33 pm

I think that Paul makes a good point.

Sustained growth can only be good for the industry. It's overproduction followed by a stagnating or shrinking market that caused the boom and bust problems of the early '80's and early 90's.

my only worry about the emerging markets is whether the increased demand is going to mean i end up paying more for my malts. We've all already experienced what happens when demand exceeds supply (e.g. Lagavulin 16).
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Postby Bullie » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:34 pm

kallaskander wrote:Hi there,

what are you guys talking about???

Pittyvaich is dismanteled, there is only a plain field in the woods where it used to be. Dufftown is the largest of Diageos distilleries already productionwise and was never named Pittyvaich.

Greetings
kallaskander


Hmms... I'm getting a wee bit confused here. I saw a distillery at the location, it was named Pittyvaich by my guide. I might be wrong here (I am!) , and reading in Misako Udo's book just makes me more confused...

Looking at pictures makes me wonder even more, since I don't recognize Dufftown distillery, but I recognize the Pittyvaich pictures...

Your right kallaskander!
Last edited by Bullie on Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby karlejnar » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:44 pm

Scotchio wrote:So which one is still in use, the old original Dufftown or Sellafield/Windscale/ Pittyvaich/Dufftown ? Must admit it was a bit of a surprise to realise how few Spysiders Diagio have.

Sorry can't help to clear the confusion, and reading in some of the books only gets me conufused on a "higher level" :?
Have been to Duftown a couple of times, but haven't actually been at the Dufftown/Pittyvaich site(s).

On the Diageo Speyside Distilleries - well actually not that few:
Auchroisk, Benrinnes, Cardhu, Cragganmore, Dailuaine, Dufftown, Glendullan, Glen Elgin, Glenlossie, Glen Spey, Inchgower, Knockando, Linkwood, Mannochmore, Mortlach, Strathmill.
Apart from those there are quite a few closed/dismantled/demolished one's. Don't think they have any mothballed one's, since that would be the first thing to do, to start them working again.
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Postby Bullie » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:45 pm

Ok, I've put some threads out to some people from Diageo. I want more info about this, and I hope they will provide me with it.

The site I visited looks more like the pics of Pittyvaich than those of Dufftown. But there was a sign that said Dufftown. (Damn, I have to get a camera that don't break down on me)

But as I said in an earlier post, this info was perhaps misunderstood by me... :roll: I'll get back when I have more on this.

And after looking at the panoramic view I'm convinced I'm totally wrong!
And now my conception of Dufftown is beyond confusion, as I don't recognize the pictures of Dufftown distillery. What I saw was a quite modern site...

I'm sorry for all the nonsen posting about this question from me, and I hope you all erase the memory of it, so it doesn't spread as a faulty information!
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Postby kallaskander » Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:04 pm

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Postby wandering pict » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:27 pm

Build new large plant adjacent to your large malting plant and with a long sea outfall for the effluent. Makes perfect business sense. With plenty of room for expansion. Distillery gets bigger over time and so rationalise further in future years to create very large malt whisky distillery and close all of the small ones except those in the classic 6 or those which are strategic malts.
Sceptic of their investment expenditure and numbers which will be employed? You bet both are totally over-inflated
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Postby Deactivated Member » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:01 am

C_I wrote:Regarding a "Lowland" distillery, they could install a third still at the new site and create thus a triple distilled "Lowland" style whisky. Ok not located in the lowlands, but Caol Ila makes also "Highland" whisky.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that triple-distilled whiskies use the spirit still twice. There is no third still.
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Postby karlejnar » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:59 pm

At Bushmills they use 3 different stills but that's in N.Ireland, not scottish Lowland. :oops:
I think Auchentoshan uses 3 stills too, (from memory of "The Malt Project DVD Highlands/Lowlands), but I'm not 100% sure.

Re. triple distilled whisky being a "Lowland" style. Triple distillation is used elsewhere too. Benrinnes uses a sort of triple distilling, and Springbank does it for their Hazelburn.
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Postby vitara7 » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:18 pm

yes, auchentoshan is tripe distilled.

hazelburn is tripe distilled but with a diffreance, its not run through three diffrent stills, but goes back through one it has allready ben through, making it triple distilled.
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Postby wandering pict » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:47 pm

Just to confirm that Springbank also have three stills. They use them differently depending upon which if three products they are making - Springbank which is said to be two and a half times distilled, or Longrow which is double distilled or Hazelburng which is triple distilled.
"Distilling whisky two and a half times is quite unique for Springbank Single Malt, it means that during the distillation process some of the low wines are collected before the second distillation, and then mixed back into the feints for another distillation, this means that some parts of the spirit has been through distillation twice and some parts three times." quote from Wikipedia :)
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:51 pm

I'm no expert on the distillation process, but I thought that all distilleries re-distilled the foreshots and feints (or are these the same things).
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Postby kallaskander » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:04 pm

Hi there,

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0, ... e_continue


"Roseisle wins first new Scotch distillery for 17 years

The group's 27 malt distilleries in Scotland are running at close to their 63m-litre capacity. The proposed new distillery, earmarked for a site in Roseisle on Speyside, will add 10m litres of capacity."

Just look at the figures. 10 million litres!

We should start collecting malts from the five smallest Speyside distilleries in Diageos hands. They are marked.

Greetings
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Postby Lawrence » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:04 pm

Unlikely, they are making pots of money from these distilleries. Time will tell.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:29 pm

Unless there is some serious issue with obsolescence, I wouldn't worry about any particular closures in a time when the industry is pretty flush. What will happen if there is an '80's-like downturn is another question. But the industry, and the market, have changed since then, and the reaction to a major supply glut might be different. Possibly the diversification offered by perceived "boutique" brands would be seen as the route to follow, while excess capacity is addressed by temporarily mothballing the huge producers like Allt-a-Bhainne and the new Roseisle. Or that could just be wishful thinking on my part--beancounters don't think that way, do they? Efficiency is their watchword. In any case, with large markets like China emerging (and India on the horizon), it is to be hoped that such will not be an issue for many years to come. Such as we can do our part by spreading the word regarding the joy to be found in variety. And we can always hope that a door closed by a Diageo will eventually be a door opened for a Raymond Armstrong or a Mark Reynier.
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