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Balvenie'Roasted Malt'

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Balvenie'Roasted Malt'

Postby lwknigh » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:54 pm

I just got my botlle of 'Roasted Malt',here's my question,it says that only 34 casks were bottled,how many bottle does that come out to?Also who sets the standards for a distillery to say its a "Limited Editon"Cheers
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Postby lbacha » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:14 pm

I would say anything they don't plan on producing more than one batch of is a limited edition.

Len
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Postby vitara7 » Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:40 pm

"limited edition" is used far too much. limited edition can mean as many as they want. take choclate bars for example. here in the uk you see from time to time you see things like "limited edition lemon and lime kit kats" they still make millions of them so in numbers there not that limited, but they get away with it from the fact that they are limited in either the length of time they make them or the amount be it millions or a few.

for example just look at the talisker 175 "limited edition" 60 000 now i wouldnt call thatall to much of a limited edition.
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Postby Lawrence » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:21 am

The term limited edition is being used a lot these days, at the low end you have Bruichladdich PC5 at 6038 bottles and at the higher end, most batches of Aberlour a'bunadh are made up of 80 to 100 casks (I think about 80,000 bottles). By definition both are limited sidtions. I think it's a function of the Company involved and the normal size of their bottling runs.
Last edited by Lawrence on Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:20 am

Lawrence - I agree with you up to a point, but I wouldn't put Bruichladdich at the low end - the low end are the single cask offerings that come out at 200 or fewer bottles. Bruichladdich is one of the distilleries that calls everything a limited edition, regardless of the size of the output.
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Postby Lawrence » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:07 pm

Yes, you're correct Nick, single cask bottlings are the 'purest' form of limited editions.

Lawrence
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Postby TheLiquorBaron » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:46 am

The term 'Limited Edition' means something has a limited production and will either never be produced again or will be a long time in between production runs.
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Postby Scotchio » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:25 pm

I thought the industry definition of ltd edition was roughly anything they can mark "Ltd edition" and get away with adding £10 plus to the standard price.
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Postby TheLiquorBaron » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:36 pm

Scotchio wrote:I thought the industry definition of ltd edition was roughly anything they can mark "Ltd edition" and get away with adding £10 plus to the standard price.


No, not really...there are legalities that must be adhered to with regards marketing...main one being that the marketing of a product must not mislead the consumer, however there are a few different definitions/variations to the rule...one example would be if a product is released in 'limited edition' packaging, etc...
The term "Limited Edition" can have a fairly broad meaning and so should only really be taken at face value...
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:13 am

I don't understand why people get all bent out of shape and cynical over this term. It means simply something that isn't intended to be an ongoing expression. When I see the term, I assume a run, probably from a single vatting, in the thousands of bottles--maybe as many as 80,000, if Lawrence's figure on a'bunadh is correct. If you read something different, that is your faulty assumption.

Nick Brown wrote:Bruichladdich is one of the distilleries that calls everything a limited edition, regardless of the size of the output.


Aren't they? Is this different from what other distilleries call "limited"? Or is this simply another case of whatever Bruichladdich does is wrong?
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:42 am

I watched the article on SMTV where Duncan M. of Bruichladdich explained why the standard expressions (12, 15 .. etc) were released as different editions (not limited in this case, but different .. Ed#1, 2 .. etc).

He explained that the whiskies were aged in different types of cask and when tested, were completely different from what had gone before. They couldn't just keep the same name as they were clearly very different.
So the concept of "Editions" was used.

As for their 'limited' editions, Bruichladdich now seem to use runs of 12000 bottles. Yes, this may seem a lot as they generally last for up to around a year (in the cases of Links and WMD), but they are 'limited' to that number and are not ongoing expressions, so I have no problems with this terminology.

As for collectibility and possible price appreciation; that's a different matter. Obviously, the fewer bottles released, the sooner and greater any appreciation may occur.

MT
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Postby Lawrence » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:22 pm

Malt-Teaser, what do you think is more valuable to the collector (for example); a bottling of Bruichladdich Links or one bottle from a single cask from an IB? I supect the Brucihladdich would be much more valuable over time, what do you think?
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Postby lbacha » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:43 pm

Nick Brown wrote:Lawrence - I agree with you up to a point, but I wouldn't put Bruichladdich at the low end - the low end are the single cask offerings that come out at 200 or fewer bottles. Bruichladdich is one of the distilleries that calls everything a limited edition, regardless of the size of the output.


I agree with a single cask being a limited edition but then why put that on the bottle when you can state single cask, Maybe what we need are qualifiers that explain how many bottles are in the limited edition like:

"Hardly" limited edition (50,000+ bottles)
"Slightly" limited edition (20,000 - 49,999 bottles)
"Somewhat" limited edition (1000-19,999)
"Extremly" limited edition (1-999 bottles)

I don't think limited edition should be an indicator of collectability as much as an indicator of your ability to get it in the future, if something sais limited edition that tells me that if I want it I better get it now or I may not have the chance later, if it represented collectability then every single cask would be a great investment and we know that isn't true.

Len
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Postby Photon » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:19 pm

Nick Brown wrote:Lawrence - I agree with you up to a point, but I wouldn't put Bruichladdich at the low end - the low end are the single cask offerings that come out at 200 or fewer bottles. Bruichladdich is one of the distilleries that calls everything a limited edition, regardless of the size of the output.


Not to pick a fight, but isn't everything Bruichladdich does right now a unique vatting? They're mixing old casks like mad to make salable product. I doubt any of these of these vattings are repeatable. Thus a limited edition. Granted they trumpet the heck out of it, but if the whisky's good, what's the harm?

-P.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:35 pm

Lawrence wrote:Malt-Teaser, what do you think is more valuable to the collector (for example); a bottling of Bruichladdich Links or one bottle from a single cask from an IB? I supect the Brucihladdich would be much more valuable over time, what do you think?


Lawrence, that is an excellent question and one upon which I must pontificate a while, please allow me to do so openly here:

It is true that OBs are generally, nay - almost always more valuable over time than IBs.

But I have to say that it can also depend upon the specific bottlings.

The WMDII or any of the links are runs of 12,000 bottles, except Links 2 which was 18,000. Links 1 (St. Andrews) is now beginning to appreciate, but none of these will rise in price to heady heights for a good few years yet, if at all.
The WMDI was a run of only 440 bottles and has already rocketed in price, sometimes commanding almost 8x to 10x its original price

Some IBs have tremendous reputations and quite rightly so, they can be superb bottlings. But in order to answer your question, I have to ask "to the collector or drinker?"

In my (limited) experience, someone looking to drink malts will pay a very good price for a bottling which is known to have been superb, whether IB or OB. Therefore, an IB could quite rightly justify a high price tag and show great appreciation of value, usually because of its contents, not its label.
However, the vast majority of collectors (or if you like speculators) tend to stick to OBs for the labels and numbers, irrespective of how they taste.

Strange?
Unfair?

Maybe so, but that has been my experience so far, but yes, I have seen a couple of exceptions.

MT
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:39 pm

Lawrence,
just to add one more example.

Some time ago I was lucky enough to get hold of what would usually be an example of the worst kind of investment:

Not only an IB, but an IB bottled outside of Scotland.

In this case it is a Macallan "Solar Eclipse".
There are just 16 numbered bottles of this and I have No. 2.

I have only ever seen one for sale and I bought it.

I already have various people finding this in my private collection and one in particular, based in the USA keeps mailing me asking me to name my price. This is one example of a bottle (IB & foreign) which is and will continue to be, an excellent investment.

MT
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Postby Lawrence » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:43 am

Malt Teaser those are good answers, another example is the SMWS, despite having some stunning whisky they rarley command the price of a 12,000 runs bottling from a distillery. People seem to like OB's better.
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Postby peergynt323 » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:52 am

As my palate develops and I start to notice batch variation, I soften to the idea of Glenrothes Vintages, Bruichladdich editions, A'bunadh batches, and small batch or single cask bottlings. It's complicated, but it's worth it.
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