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Limited Editions

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Limited Editions

Postby r900p » Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:54 pm

A while back there was a debate on how many bottles produced make a bottling limited.

Regards,

Rob
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:30 pm

That's true.

(Smart ass....)

A limited edition is anything with a single bottling run, in my mind, and so is limited perhaps only by the capacity of any given bottler's vatting tanks. Despite the umbrage taken at the term by those who seem to think "limited" means "really small", I'd expect it to be anywhere from 1,000 to 50,000 bottles. But if I saw a Limited Edition of 100,000 bottles tomorrow, I would fail to be shocked. It only means it isn't an ongoing standard bottling.
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Postby r900p » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:58 pm

Ah, oops i deleted a few lines instead of one. :oops: Mr T could you point me in the direction of the deate that was?

Rob
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:19 pm

I don't think so, but I'll bet we can have the same debate all over again!
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Postby Deactivated Member » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:23 pm

How about this one?
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Postby r900p » Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:46 pm

Thanks Mr T, thats it.
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:23 am

I concur ... anything that is never going to be made again.... the Aberlour batches can be considered limited editions and you can be sure they are fairly big runs ...
Last edited by irishwhiskeychaser on Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Fachan » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:44 am

IWC,


I am maybe being picky with words here ( no doubt Mr. Picky, MR T will correct me if I am) but the Aberlour batches, I assume you mean A'bunadh have never claimed to be limited editions.
They make it very clear that it is a batch product though, with a batch being around 26,000- 28,000 bottles or so.
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Postby bond » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:19 am

Abunadh will probably qualify as a variant. Or maybe, if one were to be picky, a "special edition" :wink:
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:36 am

The Fachan wrote:IWC,


I am maybe being picky with words here ( no doubt Mr. Picky, MR T will correct me if I am) but the Aberlour batches, I assume you mean A'bunadh have never claimed to be limited editions.
They make it very clear that it is a batch product though, with a batch being around 26,000- 28,000 bottles or so.


Yes I meant batch and yes I presumed that people would reckonise that it was the a'bunadh I was on about ... sorry for the crypitic assumptions :oops:

Further it is great to see that Aberlour have not jumped on the Limited Edition band wagon but at the end of the day I still consider them Limited Editions...

That is the whole point of the comment .... people often get confused about limited editions and reckon that they have to be single cask or a run of numbered bottles... this is not the case in my opinion .... can you buy a'bunadh Batch 14 or even 15 in shops freely now ... the answer is no ... therefore it will now become a collectable bottle once all have been sold. The reason it will become a collectable so quickly eventhough it is from a large batch is because it was realesed in Limited (finite) capacity therefore a Limited edition. Remember 28,000 bottles is not a large batch in the scheme of things especially world wide but probably is to a collector as he wants his bottles to be very very rare.

Another example

Redbreast 15 was created in 2005 as a once off but it was also a very large batch. There is nothing on the label to quantify a limited edition or anything special about it. It is even still available in certian retailers however this will eventually run out and that will be the end of it (Unless Irish Distillers decide other wise :roll: ) therefore to me that has to be considered a limited edition.

Maybe these are not truely collectable but that is up to the collector


lim·it·ed

Pronunciation: \ˈli-mə-təd\
Function: adjective
Date: 1597

1 a: confined within limits : restricted
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Postby The Fachan » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:16 pm

IWC,

Point taken, I do believe that most "limited" editions are a joke in the quantities they do. Not sure if its something the SWA will ever look at but considering how long the Vatted/blended malt saga has continued I am not hopeful.
As usual its marketing driven and not quality driven.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:53 pm

The fence around a ranch in Wyoming will be a wee bit longer than the one around your garden...it's still a limit. With all due respect, Mr Fachan, I honestly don't understand why anyone gets bothered about this. People seem to want to attach far more significance to this bit of fluff language than it's worth. It only means it's not an ongoing bottling, and in most cases it's as redundant as "matured in oak casks".
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Postby les taylor » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:58 pm

The other thing to remember that once one limited edition is past. There will always be another. Sometimes they are like London Buses in that 2 or 3 come along together. Distilleries want to sell whisky and lots of it. If they limit something demand goes up. That edition sells out. Then there is another limited edition to satisfy the demand.


:thumbsup:
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Postby The Fachan » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:08 pm

Mr. T,

Just my Tuesday rant, have taken the medicine and now sitting in a quiet corner. Yes, you are correct there are more important things out there like Nicks message on whats not Ardbeg.
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Postby Deactivated Member » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:47 pm

No medicinal administration intended, F...just trying to keep things in perspective. It seems to me that people read something into this phrase that isn't there, because it's what they want to read; then they wish to blame someone else for their own misinterpretation. On the other hand, if large numbers of people read a thing a certain way that was not intended, I suppose the communicator must take some responsibility for lack of clarity. It's interesting, for example, how many people are surprised by the character of Ardbeg's Airigh Nam Beist--the mere inclusion of the word "beast" (which is a word with more than one connotation) in the name leads them to make certain assumptions.

Well, that's enough overanalysis for today.
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Postby bernstein » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:03 pm

MrTattieHeid wrote:It's interesting, for example, how many people are surprised by the character of Ardbeg's Airigh Nam Beist--the mere inclusion of the word "beast" (which is a word with more than one connotation) in the name leads them to make certain assumptions.

I plea guilty as I tasted the Airigh Nam Beist last night for the first time and was really surprised how "unbeasty" this dram really was...

:wink:
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Postby irishwhiskeychaser » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:29 pm

Ahh but where would we be without an arguement or two about the frivolity of words :wink:

Keep up the rants F :thumbsup:


[Sniff] 'Aaahhhh .......Nothing like the smell of a rant in the morning' :lol:
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Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:06 am

MrTattieHeid wrote: It's interesting, for example, how many people are surprised by the character of Ardbeg's Airigh Nam Beist--the mere inclusion of the word "beast" (which is a word with more than one connotation) in the name leads them to make certain assumptions.

I think this is quite funny - I've even seen tasting notes for ANB that seem to have been driven by expectation rather than experience. Actually, the name means Lair of the Beast - rather implying that the beast is not at home. Still and all, I rather enjoyed it.

In terms of limited editions, I suspect they used to be quite rare. Distilleries might come up with an important milestone and produce a one off celebratory bottling. Since they sold well, some distillers have tried to cash in with a never ending stream of limited editions of varying sizes, a bewildering array of signed certificates and often at really very steep prices. The Franklin Mint approach. This will work as long as people are determined to catch 'em all. If, though, people give up on keeping pace, you'll find that limited editions stop being collectible and get treated just like run of the mill whiskies - or if the limited edition car market is anything to go by, potentially less desirable than the mainstream bottles.

For me, what is important is that each distillery tries to aim for a distinctive character of its own. I think it's just as valid, whether it is the smoky bacon of Ardbeg; the fruitiness of Glenlivet; the heather honey of Highland Park or the sweetness of Isle of Arran. I think a customer should have some idea of what to expect from the pedigree of a distillery. There should be sparing use of one offs that don't fit the mould; and obviously you would expect to see some differences within a standard range of ages. I think it is a mistake for distilleries to do a Loch Lomond and try to produce every style under one roof as they end up detracting from one another. I think it is a mistake to produce a never ending succession of flavours, finishes and other gimicks as the customer has no expectation of flavour, quality or value. And if, by chance, they hit on a good one, they'll never be able to get it again.

If I were the SWA, I'd be looking at the present boom in single malt whisky sales and asking how the industry could use it as a platform on which to build rather than trying to cash in today at the expense of the future. I wonder whether, given the chance again, the Campbeltown distillers would be of the same mind.
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