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Caol Ila- Pronunciation

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Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby bond » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:32 am

How is this whisky pronounced?

Is the first word pronounced "kull" as in "full" or is it "Kull" as in "mull"?

More importantly, is the 2nd world pronounced "eyelah" or is it pronounced "eela". The packaging suggests the latter but a website with pronunciations by Pip Hills of SMWS seems to suggest the former.

Any views?

Cheers
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby matthew2512 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:52 am

Here is a website with audio examples of how to pronounce distillery names
http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/jhb/whisky/pronounc.html
I hope that helps
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby bond » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:48 am

Thats the website I hv referred to in my post. Contradicts the suggested pronunciation in the packaging.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby matthew2512 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:11 am

bond wrote:How is this whisky pronounced?

Is the first word pronounced "kull" as in "full" or is it "Kull" as in "mull"?

More importantly, is the 2nd world pronounced "eyelah" or is it pronounced "eela". The packaging suggests the latter but a website with pronunciations by Pip Hills of SMWS seems to suggest the former.

Any views?

Cheers


I believe its "kull" as in "full" and "eela". but im sure someone will correct me if im wrong.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Dubois » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:31 pm

I don't pronounce it, I drink it... :wink:
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby BruceCrichton » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:36 pm

The experts I know call it Cull Eela and it translates to 'Sound of Islay'. It is the same linguistic root as the word Kyle.

Sound, in this case, means bay.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby mikeymad » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:13 pm

Dubois wrote:I don't pronounce it, I drink it... :wink:


Cheers to that......
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby oldrip57 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:44 am

I find this website helpful regarding Scots distillery pronunciations:
http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/jhb/whisky/pronounc.html
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:23 am

Following Gaelic pronunciation, Caol is pronounced almost like "cool" but without such a hard L. Ila is pronounced "eela". The two are rolled into a single word wilt the stress on the I of Ila.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Muskrat Portage » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:38 am

Nick;
Thank you, we've struggled with this a number of times and personally I still don't quite get it right. I still say something like "couleela" but then, my ancestors left two generations ago so it's to be expected, I guess.

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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby LeoDLion » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:50 pm

How about if you have a girlfriend named Leila and she's a cool girl, so its "Cool Leila"?
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby les taylor » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:02 pm

LeoDLion wrote:How about if you have a girlfriend named Leila and she's a cool girl, so its "Cool Leila"?



Yes but does she come from Islay and work at a certain distillery. Then she would be Cool Leila from Cool eela.


:)
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby LeoDLion » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:54 pm

les taylor wrote:
LeoDLion wrote:How about if you have a girlfriend named Leila and she's a cool girl, so its "Cool Leila"?



Yes but does she come from Islay and work at a certain distillery. Then she would be Cool Leila from Cool eela.


:)

Les, you give me the laughs.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Di Blasi » Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:30 pm

Marriage material for sure!
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Di Blasi » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:44 am

I mistakenly call it COWl ieela, or something like that. Cool Eeela sounds much, cooler.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby jazz lover » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:46 pm

Kowel eela
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:25 pm

ka LEEla. To my ear, the Scots seem to like to migrate the consonant from the end of one word to the beginning of the next. They also say por TELLen.

I don't think that vowel quite exists in English--it's somewhere in amongst call and cull and coll. Speakers of one language oughtn't be too fussed about pronunciation of words in another language, in everyday conversation. Just get somewhere close. Or else just anglicize it once and for all--I note that Americans pronounce the word "fillet" as "fillay", whereas Brits say "fill it". Whatever. The way folks pronounce "lingerie" is just a crime, though.

However you say Caol Ila, just don't spell it "Coal Ila". :x
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:30 pm

We had exactly this discussion in the pub last night.
I always maintain it's "Cull Eela", but my new Irish barman who speaks (Irish) Gaelic, says that to him it would be "Quail Eela".
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:37 pm

"Quail Eela" sounds like some horrifying attempt at French-Brit fusion cuisine!
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:38 pm

Irish and Scottish Gaelic have different pronunciations. As noted above, "caol" is pronounced almost as the Scots would pronounce the word "cool".

Obviously I wouldn't support an anglicized pronunciation (how could anyone suggest such a thing?). If the name was chosen in Gaelic, we should respect that and pronounce it as Gaelic.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:23 pm

Generally, Nick, I would agree that we should pronounce it as closely as we can. But as I said, different languages use different sounds, and proper pronunciation of foreign words is simply not possible for many people. I would prefer an outright anglicization, as in "fillet" in the UK, to such butcherings as the common pronunciation of "lingerie".

(My dad knew a teacher who advocated pronouncing Don Quixote as "Don Quicks-oat" rather than the common "Donkey Hotey" that tortured his ears.)

I will also repeat my contention that the proper pronunciation of any placename is that used by the people who live there.

Ever been to Kircaldy? Or Kirkcudbright?
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:15 pm

or Cha'am?
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:46 pm

Yes ma'am.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:18 pm

Cha'am is slightly different. It is derived from Chatham, but with a huge glottal stop in the middle.

Obviously, Tattie, we disagree on this point. I suppose it depends on whether you think a place name belongs to local residents or belongs to a language (whose speakers may not exactly match the place). From previous exchanges on this subject, I know that your starting point and mine are different. Plus ca change (pronounced plusska chainj)
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:45 pm

Nick Brown wrote:Cha'am is slightly different. It is derived from Chatham, but with a huge glottal stop in the middle.


Yes, I got that. I used to have a friend who lived in Newton (outside Boston) (or "St Botolph's Town", if you prefer) who always called it "New'on". Drove me nuts.

Hard for me to see how it can be argued that local usage is not inherently correct. Cessed la vee.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Reggaeblues » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:49 pm

Ah! Cha'am!

I go' a may' from Cha'am! She's a singah, Sh'innarf good! Quali'ee! I sing wivvah a lo'!
She drinks Taliskah but finks Glenfiddick is weak and wa'ery. She's twenny severn ( I'm tellin' ther troof!)
an' finks I'm a wimp fraddin' wa'er to me Aberloor A'bundah!
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:24 pm

Glen Garioch? I have no idea. I've never even heard of Garioch in any context other than the whisky, so I'd probably go along with the geary that everyone tells me is correct. But a Scot, coming at the word anew, would invariably go for gar ee och (with och as in loch) as C57 says.

There are some cases where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. The best example of this is Glen Mhor. There is a geographic feature called The Great Glen. It is also known as Glen Albyn. In Gaelic, it is called Gleann Mor (with an accent on the o but I can't do accents on this computer). There is no h in mor because gleann is a masculine word. The whisky, though, has an h in mhor - serving no grammatical purpose but probably intended to look more authentically Scottish (mhor would be correct after a feminine noun). Thus, non Gaelic speakers sometimes know that mh s pronounced as a v - so they say Glen Vor. Fine, but grammatically wrong. But say Glen Mor, and you might be grammatically correct, but plenty of people will correct your pronunciation. You can't win.

I find Allt A'Bhainne quite sad. The name was invented in the 1970s as a Gaelic name by a Gaelic enthusiast - there is no long tradition to it. It means stream of milk - prettier than the whisky deserves. But the pronunciation would be allt a vanya. Yet it is known throughout the industry as Allt A Bain. I have heard that the inventor of the name is very sad about this and does still insist on using the Gaelic pronunciation himself (as do I, you'll be cheered to know).
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:58 pm

allt is as you would imagine flat A + L + T.

The Glen Mhor is not a case of being trapped - however you say it there is a justification for why you're right and just as good a justification for why you're wrong.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby woodhill » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:05 am

I think the last bit means "shoot a friend" :lol:
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:08 am

woodhill wrote:I think the last bit means "shoot a friend" :lol:


Very droll, Woodhill, very droll.

There is a Gaelic proverb (used by Lawrence as his signature) that says: Cha deoch-slàint, i gun a tràghadh. It means - a drink isn't healthy if it's not emptied. I adapted this to read Chan fhiach deoch gun a còmhradh. It means - a drink is useless without conversation.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:26 am

Collector57 wrote:I'm with Nick on this one.

An even more extreme example is Glen Garioch.
The professor of Gaelic who I heard talking about this said in general the Scots would ponounce it Garree-och (soft ch as in loch).
But the locals pronounce it Geery.
So either is theoretically acceptable.
I must admit I take Nick's principle to the extreme her and always call it Geery.


Aren't you actually agreeing with me, then? :?
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby arkle » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:08 pm

Whist waiting for a train to Milngavie ,couldnt work out why none went there, but plenty went to 'Mulguy'! :lol:
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:19 pm

Sounds like a lucky escape there, Arkle.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Willie JJ » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:16 pm

I think we are always on a hiding to nothing with Gaelic pronunciation. I have heard Ileachs pronounce Bunnahabhain variously as Boonahav'n, Bunnahav'n (as in iced bun) and Bonnahav'n (as in the old West German capital). I give up.
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Re: Caol Ila- Pronunciation

Postby Deactivated Member » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:21 pm

In Gaelic, the first vowel sound is like the u in pudding. But the spelling is a corruption - it should have been Bun Na h-Aibhne which would be pronounced bun na hahnya. Gaelic is fairly phonetic.
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